149. Living Well is the Best Revenge with Susan Omilian JD, – The Author of “Living in the Thriver Zone”

|

 Susan Omilian JD is a nationally recognized expert who has worked extensively as an advocate to end violence against women. An attorney, author, trainer and motivational speaker, Susan has spent over forty years helping women reclaim their lives after violence, abuse and trauma. 

In the 1970s, she founded a rape crisis center and represented battered women in divorce proceedings in the early 1980s. She also litigated sex discrimination cases including helping to articulate the legal concept that made sexual harassment illegal in the 1990s. 

With the death of her nineteen-year-old niece Maggie who was shot and killed in October, 1999 by her ex-boyfriend on a college campus, Susan’s work on behalf of women became more personal and immediate. She vowed to help other women move on after abuse and create a new life for themselves and their children as Maggie could not. 

To that end, Susan originated and now facilitates My Avenging Angel WorkshopsTM based on the idea that “living well is the best revenge.” Since 2001, her workshops have helped hundreds of women take the journey beyond abuse from victim to survivor to thriver. The motivational guidance Susan has successfully used in her unique, innovative work is contained in The Thriver Zone SeriesTM of non-fiction books. With easy-to-use worksheets, interactive exercises and thriver success stories, the books include Entering the Thriver Zone published in 2016, Staying in the Thriver Zone in 2018 and Living in the Thriver Zone released in October, 2020. The story of her fictional The Best Revenge SeriesTM was inspired by the true events of her niece’s murder. Those books include Awaken published in 2017, Emerge in 2018 and Thrive to come in 2021. 

Susan is the author of several legal books on sex discrimination law and her articles have regularly appeared in newspapers and journals such as The Voice: The Journal of the Battered Women’s Movement of the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence (NCADV). She speaks frequently to women survivors of abuse and to those who work with them such as victim advocates with the National Organization for Victims Assistance (NOVA) as well as Indian tribes and male and female inmate populations. 

Susan holds a law degree from Wayne State University in Detroit and a BA in journalism from the University of Michigan. She currently resides in West Hartford, Connecticut. 

Susan’s Personal Mission Statement 

“I am a woman of power whose mission in life is to be a catalyst for change for victims 

of violence against women. Today I celebrate my life by building a community 

of strong, independent, productive women who have survived abuse 

and are thriving in well-being, love and joy.”

https://thriverzone.com/

Transcript
Brad Miller:

We are happy to bring into our podcasts, great

Brad Miller:

leaders and authors and people who have navigated some form of

Brad Miller:

adversity in their own right and have something to teach us and

Brad Miller:

to lead us. And that is the case here today as we have Susan

Brad Miller:

Amelia with us. She is a lawyer and she is an expert in working

Brad Miller:

with folks who have experience, particularly women who've

Brad Miller:

experienced violence. She's a trainer in this area.

Brad Miller:

motivational speaker, she has spent many years helping people

Brad Miller:

reclaim their lives after trauma and violence and abuse. And she

Brad Miller:

is an author of a series of books called the thriver zone

Brad Miller:

series, which you can pick up and learn more about it thriver

Brad Miller:

zone.com, and related book of this series is living in the

Brad Miller:

thriver zone, which helps people to live well as the best

Brad Miller:

revenge. Susan, Welcome to Beyond adversity.

Susan Omillian:

Thank you, bad, lovely to be here. Awesome.

Susan Omillian:

Well, it is great to have you with us here today on the

Susan Omillian:

podcast. And your work is in such an important area, which

Susan Omillian:

has to do with helping women particularly to navigate and

Susan Omillian:

deal with abuse, and trauma and drama and what we're all about

Susan Omillian:

here in this podcast to help people to navigate adverse

Susan Omillian:

conditions. And I found that most people have a story to tell

Susan Omillian:

about how something has happened in their life. And I just would

Susan Omillian:

like for you to share a little bit about how you come to focus

Susan Omillian:

on this area of the helping people helping women

Susan Omillian:

particularly who have experienced abuse, what happened

Susan Omillian:

in your life, which was pivotal for you to focus in on this.

Susan Omillian:

There were several pivotal moments. I have been doing this

Susan Omillian:

work since college, I'd say in the 1970s. I was in college and

Susan Omillian:

the women's rights movement very interested in that I decided to

Susan Omillian:

go to law school to pursue that to work on women's rights

Susan Omillian:

issues. I also had been although I had no personal experience

Susan Omillian:

with sexual assault, I started doing some sexual assault victim

Susan Omillian:

advocacy. And I also as an attorney represented women in

Susan Omillian:

domestic violence cases coming through divorce on this is in

Susan Omillian:

the early 80s. I went to work for state government here in

Susan Omillian:

Connecticut working in the governor's office and also the

Susan Omillian:

governor's budget agency and child welfare. And right after I

Susan Omillian:

left that job, something happened that although I was

Susan Omillian:

interested in this work and had done it as an advocate that

Susan Omillian:

something happened in my personal life that really

Susan Omillian:

switched the kind of work I was doing. And that was mostly my

Susan Omillian:

own personal tragedy in in October of 1999 21 years ago

Susan Omillian:

this month. My niece Maggie who was a 19 year old college

Susan Omillian:

student at a very good school and Midwest. My family is rich,

Susan Omillian:

I'm originally from Michigan, my family's from Michigan was

Susan Omillian:

killed by her ex boyfriend he had she'd been had very short

Susan Omillian:

term relationship with him, he refused to accept the end of the

Susan Omillian:

relationship. She didn't know he had a gun he had never

Susan Omillian:

physically assaulted her before he killed her and then killed

Susan Omillian:

himself. Although I done this work before suddenly became my

Susan Omillian:

personal mission very immediate. Because Maggie is now dead. And

Susan Omillian:

we do something about this. And it really sort of changed the

Susan Omillian:

course of the kind of work I would do. And I think it became

Susan Omillian:

much deeper kind of work not only for me, because I was on my

Susan Omillian:

own journey to move beyond this. And I wanted to do more than

Susan Omillian:

survive it. I knew that this man had destroyed my niece, I felt

Susan Omillian:

he wasn't going to destroy my life for my family. So how could

Susan Omillian:

we get something good to come out of this? And that really is

Susan Omillian:

where that pivotal moment almost 20 years ago, that really took

Susan Omillian:

me to the work that I do now helping women who as Maggie

Susan Omillian:

could not move on after abuse and take that journey. I call

Susan Omillian:

that the journey from victim to survivor to thriver. Well, what

Susan Omillian:

a what a drama what a trauma is certainly and you would probably

Susan Omillian:

know more about the statistics on this than I would. But it is

Susan Omillian:

a major problem, isn't it of abuse of women and violence,

Susan Omillian:

including murder and so on. And it is just a huge problem.

Susan Omillian:

Right. And I think somehow although I had done this work

Susan Omillian:

for 20 years before Maggie was killed, I thought my family was

Susan Omillian:

the exception we were going to be the other that we were not

Susan Omillian:

going to be touched by this. And that was statistically if you

Susan Omillian:

look at any any kind of data about the incidence of domestic

Susan Omillian:

violence, sexual assault, child abuse, homicide, domestic

Susan Omillian:

violence, homicide, the numbers are across all all generations,

Susan Omillian:

all age groups, all cultures, all socio economic. I come from

Susan Omillian:

a blue collar background so nobody is really and I think

Susan Omillian:

that was one of the one of the more startling things I still

Susan Omillian:

really can't believe that my niece is gone. Although it's

Susan Omillian:

been 20 years, I guess at any kind of tragedy. It's like it

Susan Omillian:

feels like it happened so long.

Susan Omillian:

And then it feel like it happened yesterday. And it's

Susan Omillian:

always cut. You know, there's always something that brings you

Susan Omillian:

back to that tragedy, that trauma, my niece would have been

Susan Omillian:

40 years old this this year, she and I have actually the same

Susan Omillian:

birth date. In August, that kind of struck all of us as a family,

Susan Omillian:

my God, she would have been 40. Look what she could have been

Susan Omillian:

doing. She wanted to be a lawyer, she wanted to have

Susan Omillian:

children and have a family. And that's really when you realize

Susan Omillian:

the impact of trauma not only on people's lives, but all the

Susan Omillian:

attendant people around Maggie, all of her friends, and family

Susan Omillian:

members, and even people that never met her, but that

Brad Miller:

have been influenced by her life. I'm sure

Brad Miller:

her memory and her presence is a driving force in your work now,

Brad Miller:

and I'm interested in some of the terminology that you use

Brad Miller:

Susan, in your work. You have a series of workshops called the

Brad Miller:

avenging Angel workshops, and the new stage in your work that

Brad Miller:

living wills the best revenge. So how we respond to drama

Brad Miller:

tragedy is so important, people can get stuck in bitterness and

Brad Miller:

revenge and revenge of energy. So use that terminology in your

Brad Miller:

work. But I'm interested in how you come to terms with the idea,

Brad Miller:

it seems like you are trying to help people to respond a little

Brad Miller:

differently than revenge and avenging in terms of punishment.

Brad Miller:

So I want to unpack it for me a little bit. What's your What are

Brad Miller:

you trying to get out here, when you say you want to avenge

Brad Miller:

living well, is the best revenge.

Susan Omillian:

So I think it started with me, because as a

Susan Omillian:

trained attorney, although I never did criminal works. As

Susan Omillian:

such, I mostly did work with women and family law and civil

Susan Omillian:

cases. When I was practicing, as a practicing attorney, I guess

Susan Omillian:

you would call it because he, this man killed himself, I had

Susan Omillian:

the sense that the way the system is supposed to work is

Susan Omillian:

that to get not revenge, but to do something about this. So it

Susan Omillian:

will stop and and then there's

Brad Miller:

no there was there was no justice in this case was

Brad Miller:

there, there's no no. And in

Susan Omillian:

some way, you know that he killed himself. We

Susan Omillian:

didn't have to go through a trial. And I have talked to

Susan Omillian:

people's homicide survivors, I now belong to a club that I

Susan Omillian:

never wanted to belong to. But I have had some mentors in the pop

Susan Omillian:

the homicide survivor community, and they told me it's really

Susan Omillian:

hard to go for that kind of a trial goes on forever. It's not

Susan Omillian:

really that healing, there really is no closure. So you

Susan Omillian:

have to find your own closure. And when I started thinking

Susan Omillian:

about revenge, I googled the word revenge. And I got that

Susan Omillian:

that quote, living well is the best revenge. And having worked

Susan Omillian:

with women in domestic violence, one of the things that I learned

Susan Omillian:

about that, the dynamics of that relationship, because it's power

Susan Omillian:

and control over one person over the other, the idea that the

Susan Omillian:

women could come and live well, the one thing that this man who

Susan Omillian:

had control them would not want them to do that feels that felt

Susan Omillian:

really freeing and releasing so that it helped me to tell myself

Susan Omillian:

that the thing that I want to do is do the best I can here, and

Susan Omillian:

that's going to be my best revenge, and I'm going to live

Susan Omillian:

well. And if I can help other women to see that as a goal,

Susan Omillian:

then I think we have found something positive to come out

Susan Omillian:

of all this.

Brad Miller:

Well, let's talk about how we could help women

Brad Miller:

and others who are having this situation because what we like

Brad Miller:

to talk about here on this podcast is help people can take

Brad Miller:

whatever trauma or drama that they have, or adversity, and to

Brad Miller:

get beyond it to find a way and one of the things that I believe

Brad Miller:

that is important is people need to take some action, people need

Brad Miller:

to do something they can get, you know, they can get lost in

Brad Miller:

your misery you can get get really bitter and just stay

Brad Miller:

stuck. What do you think are some actions? Let's just put

Brad Miller:

let's just take a perspective of someone who is listening to this

Brad Miller:

podcast who is experiencing some form of abuse and is looking for

Brad Miller:

some direction? What are some action? What are something that

Brad Miller:

they can do to respond to this?

Susan Omillian:

Well, I think one of the things that in my

Susan Omillian:

niece's situation she never really identified as a victim. I

Susan Omillian:

mean, the warning signs were there the one sign that wasn't

Susan Omillian:

there that he had physically assaulted her or had the

Susan Omillian:

capacity to physically hurt her. But all the other warning signs

Susan Omillian:

were there and and part of my guilt about that as I knew those

Susan Omillian:

warning signs, but it seemed like Maggie was handling this.

Susan Omillian:

Okay. He was she had left him I think she went back to the room

Susan Omillian:

that night to see him one more time to tell him to leave her

Susan Omillian:

alone. I think she thought she could solve the problem all by

Susan Omillian:

herself. So I always tell women, whether you feel you know,

Susan Omillian:

you've got every single warning sign on the list of physical,

Susan Omillian:

mental, psychological, you know, financial abuse, go get help,

Susan Omillian:

you have to go get help. That's the first thing and there and

Susan Omillian:

unlike 20 3050 years ago, there are programs there are free

Susan Omillian:

programs, the hotline, the Domestic Violence Hotline, you

Susan Omillian:

can Google it, you need to identify as a victim you need to

Susan Omillian:

address the issue that you make, even if there's been no physical

Susan Omillian:

abuse. In the marriage, or the relationship, any pushing,

Susan Omillian:

shoving, you know, threats or whatever, or you know, guns or

Susan Omillian:

however this person might show power and control, you need to

Susan Omillian:

get help. So identifying is that and then the other thing that I

Susan Omillian:

try to teach women, I tend not to work with women right now who

Susan Omillian:

are in crisis. I found after my own trauma with Maggie's death

Susan Omillian:

that I couldn't do that after Maggie. I every woman in the

Susan Omillian:

shelter was Maggie and I emotionally couldn't do that. So

Susan Omillian:

I really work with women who have gotten out on some level,

Susan Omillian:

although I work with women who actually have been out for a

Susan Omillian:

number of years, and they still don't feel like they're moving

Susan Omillian:

forward identifying as a victim very, very important.

Susan Omillian:

Understanding that you will go beyond being a victim, you can

Susan Omillian:

you will, you will some women come to me, I've always been a

Susan Omillian:

victim, I'm a really good survivor, I can survive

Susan Omillian:

anything. And I tell them that they're on a journey, that there

Susan Omillian:

is a place where you will struggle, we all have a struggle

Susan Omillian:

in our life, the question is, you're going to move beyond that

Susan Omillian:

you're going to survive. And I want to see you do more than

Susan Omillian:

that

Brad Miller:

are things are things like denial and

Brad Miller:

projection, a part of the issues here, you know, denial, pretend

Brad Miller:

like they're projecting saints, I did something to precipitate,

Susan Omillian:

yeah, they blame themselves. But if only I

Susan Omillian:

wouldn't have gotten this relationship, not only in terms

Susan Omillian:

of myself, but their children have been exposed to all this.

Susan Omillian:

One of the things I work with is just trying to get them into

Susan Omillian:

positive energy, not to say that this, you know, didn't happen,

Susan Omillian:

because it did. And not to say that it's not going to continue

Susan Omillian:

to have some impact on your life. Men, the women I work

Susan Omillian:

with, even after they have left the abusive relationship or

Susan Omillian:

marriage, they get caught in custody battles, and child

Susan Omillian:

support and, and all kinds of rigmarole that will pull them

Susan Omillian:

back. But to keep moving forward. What I also have

Susan Omillian:

learned for myself and in also for the women I work with, is

Susan Omillian:

that there's this negative voice in your head, that will keep

Susan Omillian:

telling you all this stuff. And in fact, if you've been in

Susan Omillian:

abusive relationship, the person who abused you may, in fact,

Susan Omillian:

have taken on that voice, you know, you're fat and stupid, and

Susan Omillian:

no will ever love, you got to stay with me. And to understand

Susan Omillian:

that's just one voice in your head, and to begin to get that

Susan Omillian:

mind control, particularly for people who have been in

Susan Omillian:

controlling relationships, where the manipulation is really

Susan Omillian:

intense, and the belief that you're nothing and your self

Susan Omillian:

esteem is really low. So to build that up, and to start to

Susan Omillian:

say, okay, that's an action you can take to start to realize

Susan Omillian:

that there's a part of you that is, is worthy and deserving of

Susan Omillian:

all the good things and deserving of living well. And

Susan Omillian:

then to begin, as she was saying, to start taking other

Susan Omillian:

actions, to start to understand that they are desires and things

Susan Omillian:

you can start moving forward with. Some of the women for

Susan Omillian:

example, need to go if they have not been, they've been they have

Susan Omillian:

not been working outside the home, need to get back to work,

Susan Omillian:

maybe to get a better job, they can go back to school and pursue

Susan Omillian:

some dreams, but they need to keep dealing with that

Susan Omillian:

resistance in their head, that something is wrong with them

Susan Omillian:

some overwhelming fear of rejection. And so I have put

Susan Omillian:

together a motivational model that helps them find those those

Susan Omillian:

guideposts and to realize that if you can realize some of these

Susan Omillian:

dreams that I've had women in my groups come through my

Susan Omillian:

workshops, and I have a continuing program so that they

Susan Omillian:

can stay connected and start working on goals. They started

Susan Omillian:

singing again, they started painting again, they've gone

Susan Omillian:

back to school, they it's coming out of a different energy. And

Susan Omillian:

do they fight with that negative voice every single day?

Susan Omillian:

Absolutely. But to bring up that I call it the happy person

Susan Omillian:

inside to bring that part of them up. I believe that part of

Susan Omillian:

us. And you know, because you come from a spiritual religious,

Susan Omillian:

I think it's a spiritual part of us.

Brad Miller:

Let's get it over. So you you mentioned the happy

Brad Miller:

person inside and I just believe there's a part of this Susan has

Brad Miller:

to do with we got have drawn resources you mentioned by

Brad Miller:

taking action and you know about, about reaching out for

Brad Miller:

help. One source of power to connect up with that happy

Brad Miller:

person inside can be understanding that there is

Brad Miller:

something greater than yourself that there is some spiritual

Brad Miller:

force, you can call it God, you can call it connecting with a

Brad Miller:

higher power, whatever you want to do. But what role does having

Brad Miller:

to do with some connection with some force greater than yourself

Brad Miller:

come into play in terms of this transformation to ripperger that

Brad Miller:

you're talking about connecting to that happy person inside?

Susan Omillian:

Well, I my experiences is that many of the

Susan Omillian:

women, particularly women who've been through not just a domestic

Susan Omillian:

violence, abusive relationship as an adult they may have had,

Susan Omillian:

and I think there's a word now that they've assigned to it in

Susan Omillian:

the clinical world called poly victimization. That Yes, their

Susan Omillian:

their presenting problem to a domestic violence hotline is

Susan Omillian:

that I'm currently in an abusive relationship, but they probably

Susan Omillian:

will also can would tell you that they've had a sexual

Susan Omillian:

assault in the past, or that child abuse was deaf or they

Susan Omillian:

witnessed domestic violence as children or They have had been

Susan Omillian:

victims of street violence. So the idea that they think that

Susan Omillian:

every part of them has been destroyed by all that's happened

Susan Omillian:

to them, the way I describe it is a part of you, it's been

Susan Omillian:

untouched. And I do agree. And some of them who have religious

Susan Omillian:

backgrounds call it a divine call it God call it some sense

Susan Omillian:

of it, some party that cannot be touched, it has been trounced

Susan Omillian:

down and yelled at and screamed at. And maybe it's like a little

Susan Omillian:

tiny Ember in their, in their psyche right now. But to bring

Susan Omillian:

that part up, and to realize that you can rebuild that, or

Susan Omillian:

you can nourish it again. And that blame, you know, that I

Susan Omillian:

have destroyed everything. And there's nothing. One of the

Susan Omillian:

exercises I do in my, in my workshops, and also my books is

Susan Omillian:

a survey of what I call limiting beliefs about yourself, bad

Susan Omillian:

things always happened to me, abuse has always been in my

Susan Omillian:

life, I can't do anything about it. There, there's no way I can

Susan Omillian:

create the life I want those kind of beliefs, which gets

Susan Omillian:

stuck in our head. And for righteous reasons, there's lots

Susan Omillian:

of stuff going on that would that would feed those thoughts,

Susan Omillian:

but they really are limiting beliefs, and then trying to

Susan Omillian:

transform them into and I use a lot of affirmations, you know, I

Susan Omillian:

am strong I am I can do this beginning to get that part of

Susan Omillian:

them.

Brad Miller:

So the inner the inner life has to be nurtured

Brad Miller:

and fed by something by interjecting something greater

Brad Miller:

than yourself. It might be reading a good book, a classic

Brad Miller:

book, or taking your workshop, or finding some input that can

Brad Miller:

help to bring about that inner voice

Susan Omillian:

or as simple as going and sitting on the beach

Susan Omillian:

for a few hours or taking a walk or you know, watching your

Susan Omillian:

favorite movies. And those are the those are the little things

Susan Omillian:

you can do to start building to. Okay, so now I want to go back

Susan Omillian:

to school and look, I'm graduating and I you know, that

Susan Omillian:

moment, I try to get them to see their goal as something they can

Susan Omillian:

achieve. And the last thing they can do is that celebration, and

Susan Omillian:

then how how to keep yourself motivated to go there. I think

Susan Omillian:

the other thing that we're sort of touching on perhaps, that I

Susan Omillian:

want to say more More specifically, I think you have

Susan Omillian:

to find some life of purpose out of all this. I mean, I you know,

Susan Omillian:

oddly enough, what happened to my niece in that moment of her

Susan Omillian:

death and the horror of it. Some part of me said, Oh, my God,

Susan Omillian:

everything I ever did came to this moment. And it really began

Susan Omillian:

to define my purpose. And I think more and more, we're

Susan Omillian:

finding people who have had terrible things happen to them,

Susan Omillian:

and they found find something good some purpose to do it. I

Susan Omillian:

was really struck by the high school students from Parkland,

Susan Omillian:

Florida a couple of years ago, they almost immediately got it,

Susan Omillian:

you know, okay, this terrible thing happened. And we know it's

Susan Omillian:

terrible. And we're gonna have to deal with that, that terror,

Susan Omillian:

but boy, we're gonna go out there and fix this and talk

Susan Omillian:

about that and make people understand. And that

Susan Omillian:

transformation was much clearer for them.

Brad Miller:

And they made it and they made an impact

Brad Miller:

immediately, didn't they? I mean,

Susan Omillian:

and they knew it, they knew and they, they

Susan Omillian:

changed some of those laws. And they got the school to do some

Susan Omillian:

things. The school I mean, the school where they were, this

Susan Omillian:

happened, they they tore down the building. I mean, they were

Susan Omillian:

not going to put up with anything like they're not going

Susan Omillian:

to put a patch over this. This is gonna be there's has to be

Susan Omillian:

something I really thought about Maggie Steph is that this is a

Susan Omillian:

huge thing that's happened. So what has to come from it is

Susan Omillian:

huge. It can't just be this little thing.

Brad Miller:

But it also brings to mind that there was power in

Brad Miller:

the US in the Parkland students as an example that when tragedy

Brad Miller:

struck of terrible devastation of many, many murders, I forget

Brad Miller:

how many there was, some

Susan Omillian:

of the kids were actually there, they saw their

Susan Omillian:

friends get killed.

Brad Miller:

But what I'm trying to Pardo I'm getting at is then

Brad Miller:

they bound together one to another they had unity in their

Brad Miller:

own purpose, not only just individual purpose, but with

Brad Miller:

others. And so I want to go with you here this is a formatter to

Brad Miller:

is the power, the healing power of positive relationships,

Brad Miller:

especially relationships to have a healthy loving relationship

Brad Miller:

people have gone through abuse of have had often that term love

Brad Miller:

has often been, you know, skewed or messed up, you know, in such

Brad Miller:

a way, but the power of loving healthy relationships to fuel

Brad Miller:

transformation. And maybe you could say a word about that

Brad Miller:

about how people aren't abused need to seek out in healthy

Brad Miller:

relationships, and others can speak into their life as well.

Brad Miller:

It's

Susan Omillian:

so the two things I'd say about that is I

Susan Omillian:

said I do this workshop. It's a two day workshop. I decided from

Susan Omillian:

the very beginning by some some idea in my head, some feeling I

Susan Omillian:

guess that I didn't want to say to the women Oh, nice to meet

Susan Omillian:

you. I'll see you later. I decided to have monthly follow

Susan Omillian:

up. So I've created a community of women, where I never ask them

Susan Omillian:

to tell their story. I make sure they're safe, but they don't

Susan Omillian:

come to my workshop or my follow ups. Talk about what happened to

Susan Omillian:

them. What they do come and talk about is what's happening now.

Susan Omillian:

And what's positive, and they get, they get that feed from

Susan Omillian:

each other. And they love to come when we help the thriver

Susan Omillian:

community and hang out, because they know we're gonna do

Susan Omillian:

positive things. And so so I agree that creating those

Susan Omillian:

positive relationships, they don't have to be romantic or

Susan Omillian:

even, but to then start working on the relationship with other

Susan Omillian:

people, their children, particularly because they have

Susan Omillian:

to heal some of that. And then I do have some women in the group

Susan Omillian:

over the long term that I've known them some for 20 1520

Susan Omillian:

years, they have gotten into healthy, intimate partner

Susan Omillian:

relationships. And they have met people, mostly men who have who

Susan Omillian:

have given them a healthy relationship.

Brad Miller:

Also, in those workshops, I'm sorry to

Brad Miller:

interrupt with the other workshops, are they? Are the

Brad Miller:

participants able to interact with one another as well as with

Brad Miller:

you? Yes. And has that been a helpful piece for them to have

Brad Miller:

community with with each other?

Susan Omillian:

I just finished a workshop in October and the

Susan Omillian:

women who've been in my workshop in my community for a while,

Susan Omillian:

it's like, oh, you know, who's coming to the program? And how

Susan Omillian:

do they do? And, you know, what are they working on, because

Susan Omillian:

some of them have similar, you know, similar goals, like, at

Susan Omillian:

the end of my workshops, and the end of the materials that I work

Susan Omillian:

in my books, you haven't, you set a new goal for yourself. And

Susan Omillian:

sometimes it's a goal that you've been working on for a

Susan Omillian:

while, like I need to get a better job, but it comes out of

Susan Omillian:

a different energy, it comes out of that thriver energy, so or go

Susan Omillian:

back to school or start painting again. And you know, some of the

Susan Omillian:

goals are just to get their energy going, and some of them

Susan Omillian:

the positive energy going, and some or to move their life

Susan Omillian:

forward, connecting around all of that. Then we have our

Susan Omillian:

success stories. And we role model for each other. Oh, look

Susan Omillian:

what she did. She passed that test. She's been working on

Susan Omillian:

really hard to get to get her hurt her career going, Oh, look,

Susan Omillian:

she's got back to school. Oh, look, she's got a new place to

Susan Omillian:

live. Oh, look, she's been doing some painting now. So just the

Susan Omillian:

idea that that's real money that was really important to me,

Susan Omillian:

coming out of as a homicide survivor, I had role models of

Susan Omillian:

people who were ahead of me in their grief and in in finding

Susan Omillian:

purpose that I could say, Well, look, I can do what I can do a

Susan Omillian:

build it or, or surely did, because that was what I think

Susan Omillian:

was missing for lots of these women was a role model, not only

Susan Omillian:

have helped not only have healthy relationships, but how

Susan Omillian:

you keep your life moving.

Brad Miller:

Sounds like encouragement. And

Brad Miller:

accountability is a part of those the dynamic of those

Brad Miller:

relationships as well, which is part of what helps people to

Brad Miller:

move forward and not be stuck. I call it the blaze of mediocrity

Brad Miller:

where we just get stuck and doing what we've been doing.

Brad Miller:

Good, good, good. Let's talk about the process some of the

Brad Miller:

process here. Now I know you have a seven step process and

Brad Miller:

part of your system here that you use. And I'm a believer that

Brad Miller:

we need. In order to move through adversity, you have to

Brad Miller:

have some disciplines or habits or processes, things that we got

Brad Miller:

to do, you know, we got to work too. So help us with that a

Brad Miller:

little bit, unpack some of your process that you use are some of

Brad Miller:

the disciplines or things that people can do to move out to

Brad Miller:

move through this thriver stage that you speak of.

Susan Omillian:

Yeah, and and although I work mainly with

Susan Omillian:

women who've come through abuse, I've also started working with

Susan Omillian:

men, male offenders, actually, who, who if you know anything

Susan Omillian:

about the world that we live in many people and I've also worked

Susan Omillian:

with female offenders, which is a smaller group, at least the

Susan Omillian:

women who've been identified that their trauma histories are

Susan Omillian:

incredible, so many ways, you know, we really have to address

Susan Omillian:

that to solve it's

Brad Miller:

a systematic, it's a systematic thing. It's not

Brad Miller:

just bad men, good women, whatever it is a whole system

Brad Miller:

that's messed

Susan Omillian:

I mean, you start to pull it apart, you're

Susan Omillian:

like, Oh my god, no wonder why child abuse needs to be dressed

Susan Omillian:

as children, or else they will live to be, or many of the men

Susan Omillian:

I've worked with, I've done offender groups, intervention

Susan Omillian:

groups with male offenders. And if you ask them about their

Susan Omillian:

childhood, they will usually tell you about witnessing

Susan Omillian:

domestic violence or being abused themselves made it just

Susan Omillian:

it just perpetuates all the way through. So the seven steps that

Susan Omillian:

I put together, I don't know exactly how I did this, I guess

Susan Omillian:

you know, like you say the how the higher powers sometimes

Susan Omillian:

guide you. So the seven steps are really to give the women an

Susan Omillian:

idea that they're on a journey. That's the first step. And for

Susan Omillian:

some of them when I put on victims to survivor to thriver

Susan Omillian:

on the board. In the workshop, they're like, Oh, I didn't know

Susan Omillian:

I was on a journey. I thought I was going to be a victim my

Susan Omillian:

whole life. And then another step I have is quieting that

Susan Omillian:

inner critic we talked about that bringing up the happy

Susan Omillian:

person inside and then I have a motivational model after the

Susan Omillian:

next steps are to understand what that positive energy you

Susan Omillian:

need to focus desire. And your need to overcome any fear or

Susan Omillian:

resistance. You have to get that desire like to go back to school

Susan Omillian:

or to get a better job or to make some changes in your life

Susan Omillian:

realizing that at the end of that, that will be I call it the

Susan Omillian:

real you the divine the the thriver the power Have you in

Susan Omillian:

for me, I realized a lot of what drove me throughout most of my

Susan Omillian:

life, even before Maggie was killed is I need to do

Susan Omillian:

meaningful work. I went to law school. And I was really clear,

Susan Omillian:

I didn't understand at the time that I wasn't going to go do

Susan Omillian:

corporate law or tax law, nice thing to do, but it just wasn't

Susan Omillian:

going to make me happy that I've always wanted to help and heal

Susan Omillian:

other people accomplish something. And if you can match

Susan Omillian:

your your desire to that goal, like I've matched my desire to

Susan Omillian:

run a workshop, I didn't know how to run a workshop, I was

Susan Omillian:

like, I'm not a clinician, I don't know what I'm doing. But

Susan Omillian:

something told me that that was gonna get me to my real you is

Susan Omillian:

going to make me feel like I was, I was helping other people

Susan Omillian:

that I was doing meaningful work, and laying out this

Susan Omillian:

motivational model, which I think all of us follow.

Susan Omillian:

Actually, the question I asked the women is, at what step Are

Susan Omillian:

you stuck, maybe you don't have enough positive energy to get

Susan Omillian:

going, maybe your desire isn't focused enough, maybe your fear

Susan Omillian:

is overwhelming you that resistance and, and limiting

Susan Omillian:

belief, or maybe you've lost touch with the real you when you

Susan Omillian:

can do all that. And the last step is to set a goal for

Susan Omillian:

yourself. And maybe it's a small goal to get the process going

Susan Omillian:

get your energy moving. Because once you get one of them done,

Susan Omillian:

that might feel you back. So what they like about it is they

Susan Omillian:

like this idea that Yeah, they've been stuck in that I

Susan Omillian:

have a way to kind of extricate them to get them to see that no,

Susan Omillian:

that's just a place that you have been that your your body,

Susan Omillian:

mind and spirit has thought you were stopped. But in fact,

Susan Omillian:

there's ways to get through it. The last book I put together,

Susan Omillian:

because I really wanted to the living in the thrivers zone is I

Susan Omillian:

wanted for these women to describe to me how this worked

Susan Omillian:

for them. And to really show that from the beginning where

Susan Omillian:

they came in the workshop, and where they are and how they

Susan Omillian:

define Living Well, well,

Brad Miller:

let's let's go there for a second, you have a

Brad Miller:

progression in your three books. Here, you've got a number of

Brad Miller:

books that you've written, both non nonfiction and fiction looks

Brad Miller:

like. The first one is entering the thriver zone, the second one

Brad Miller:

staying in the thriver zone and wants just release recently,

Brad Miller:

living in the thriver zone. And I think you've got some stories

Brad Miller:

to tell there are people who have basically gone through your

Brad Miller:

work together. And I would like you to speak to the woman who

Brad Miller:

may be listening to our podcast episode today who may be going

Brad Miller:

through her problems or issues with abuse of some sort, by

Brad Miller:

helping us to understand the story of maybe a person or two

Brad Miller:

that that you have, have worked with. And so tell us a story

Brad Miller:

about a person who has had some transformation out of your, who

Brad Miller:

you've encountered here.

Susan Omillian:

One of them that's really very, very clear

Susan Omillian:

to me, is a woman young woman who came into my workshop, one

Susan Omillian:

of my first workshops almost 20 years ago, who wasn't singing

Susan Omillian:

what I met her. She was probably in her 20s she wasn't singing, I

Susan Omillian:

asked her why she stopped singing. And she the she was she

Susan Omillian:

was in a dating relationship that had moved from verbal to

Susan Omillian:

physical. And he was her musical partner. She didn't play the

Susan Omillian:

guitar at the time, her background was more than piano.

Susan Omillian:

And she stopped singing. I remembered my niece, Maggie when

Susan Omillian:

she was a kid. And she used to ask me about the cases that I

Susan Omillian:

was doing on those litigating. And I tell her the story. And

Susan Omillian:

she's like, well answers. And that's so unfair, we have to do

Susan Omillian:

something about that. And so it reminded me of this woman

Susan Omillian:

situation and like, that'd be so unfair. She'd never sing again,

Susan Omillian:

watching her start to invite her to come and bring her guitar to

Susan Omillian:

one of our events and play a little bit and sing for us. I

Susan Omillian:

had never heard her sing, she had beautiful voice. And she

Susan Omillian:

wasn't good at guitar. But she started and she naturally start

Susan Omillian:

singing again. But she also started writing songs about her

Susan Omillian:

journey beyond abuse. So that was a really kind of clear

Susan Omillian:

example of a block that she had, that she thought she'd never get

Susan Omillian:

through. And then how we began the community around her began

Susan Omillian:

to manage that for her and to or to give her a way to see it that

Susan Omillian:

that that she could get through that block. And that gave her a

Susan Omillian:

purpose that she started singing with a purpose in mind not just

Susan Omillian:

singing again,

Brad Miller:

what have you what a beautiful metaphor to go from

Brad Miller:

a place of basically no voice and no song, sharing literally

Brad Miller:

her voice.

Susan Omillian:

And that's what I get. I mean, I give women back

Susan Omillian:

their voice. There's another woman who came in who had had a

Susan Omillian:

brace on her leg because she had had a physical altercation with

Susan Omillian:

her, her husband and and her voice was so tiny. And she has a

Susan Omillian:

very tiny women very petite woman. And I had to keep asking

Susan Omillian:

her to, to speak louder during the workshop and over the years

Susan Omillian:

that I've known her. She has now this big voice and she's I'm a

Susan Omillian:

woman of power. And the idea that and to inspire other women.

Susan Omillian:

Well, if she can do that, look what I could do my little thing.

Susan Omillian:

So yeah, I think it's giving giving back a voice. It's also

Susan Omillian:

giving when I do this when I asked him what's important to

Susan Omillian:

them. Like I said, meaningful works important to me. One of

Susan Omillian:

the things that I I find women are not socialized to want power

Susan Omillian:

and status in our society, maybe it's changing. But I said that

Susan Omillian:

maybe you want to empower yourself. And so they like that

Susan Omillian:

they like that idea of empowering themselves that they

Susan Omillian:

can now particularly if they've been in a controlling

Susan Omillian:

relationship, whether it was an adult in the domestic violence

Susan Omillian:

or as a child that they want to empower themselves. So to find

Susan Omillian:

that thing that really gets them moving,

Brad Miller:

yep, you're helping them to develop their own sense

Brad Miller:

of purpose or mission, right? So

Susan Omillian:

or to find what they love, you know, if it's

Susan Omillian:

painting, or if it's if it's art, or I have women who stopped

Susan Omillian:

painting, because, you know, the, the art teacher in high

Susan Omillian:

school, sexually assaulted them, and they stopped painting it at

Susan Omillian:

age 16. And they suddenly said, I'm gonna do that again. So just

Susan Omillian:

trying to find that spark, again, we were talking about

Susan Omillian:

that little flame, the part of them it's been on touch the part

Susan Omillian:

of the Divine, the spiritual part, to see if they could start

Susan Omillian:

to rebuild that Ember, and then they take off and do these

Susan Omillian:

amazing things that I don't even know that I didn't even know

Susan Omillian:

they could do.

Brad Miller:

Well, that's the thriving, right? That's the

Brad Miller:

thriving, so is as opposed to reaching out for revenge by, you

Brad Miller:

know, violence of your own sword going to get drunk or whatever

Brad Miller:

it would be, you know, people have find all kinds of ways to

Brad Miller:

respond to try to numb the pain, but to have revenge by thriving.

Brad Miller:

Right.

Susan Omillian:

And and I think I have I have a what I call it a

Susan Omillian:

working definition of thriver that I have in all my books. I

Susan Omillian:

think it's working because I don't think we've made it big

Susan Omillian:

enough yet. I don't think we to really put we'll put people out

Susan Omillian:

there not just women, but to put people out there and say, like

Susan Omillian:

the Parkland kids, I mean, you know, they got it really fast.

Susan Omillian:

That was they were 17 or what 1617 I have women coming to me

Susan Omillian:

in their 60s and 70s, who are just learning that there's a

Susan Omillian:

part of them that's been untouched and and all the things

Susan Omillian:

that have happened to them cannot be wiped out. But they

Susan Omillian:

can be overcome, I

Unknown:

guess. Well, let's

Brad Miller:

hear your definition of a thriving.

Susan Omillian:

Okay, sure. So it's in my book. So, A thriver

Susan Omillian:

is a happy, self confident and productive individual who

Susan Omillian:

believes she has a prosperous life ahead of her. She's primed

Susan Omillian:

to follow her dreams, go back to school, find a new job, start

Susan Omillian:

her own business or writer story. She believes in herself

Susan Omillian:

in the future so much that she will not return to an abusive

Susan Omillian:

relationship, living well as her best revenge, she's not stuck in

Susan Omillian:

her anger or need for revenge, she's found a network of women

Susan Omillian:

who understand and share her desire to move forward after

Susan Omillian:

abuse.

Brad Miller:

Well, that's a great thing. And I'm a big

Brad Miller:

believer in building things like mission and purpose statements

Brad Miller:

and goals and so on. And that seems to me like you're giving

Brad Miller:

women particularly anyone an opportunity to connect up with

Brad Miller:

that as a starting point for themselves, so they can develop

Brad Miller:

their own their own process.

Susan Omillian:

Yeah, and like I said, they do things that I sort

Susan Omillian:

of, like, I always feel like they're, um, they come to my

Susan Omillian:

workshop, they're like, on the edge of a cliff. And they're

Susan Omillian:

ready to there, they think that they can jump off, you know, and

Susan Omillian:

metaphorically, without a parachute and land on their feet

Susan Omillian:

at the bottom of the canyon. And they, they act like they come

Susan Omillian:

into the workshop, like they're really in a bad place, but they

Susan Omillian:

really are on the edge of that cliff. All I have to do is put

Susan Omillian:

my little finger on their back end, they're over. And they're,

Susan Omillian:

and they're going for it. And sometimes it's like, you know,

Susan Omillian:

within 10 minutes of the workshop ending, they're sending

Susan Omillian:

me stuff on the email and the writing the bones. And, you

Susan Omillian:

know, it's just the energy. I

Unknown:

mean, I literally can

Susan Omillian:

watch some of the women transform before my

Susan Omillian:

eyes during the workshop. And there's

Brad Miller:

nothing there's nothing better than life

Brad Miller:

transformation when you see it. Oh, yeah, that process. I'm a

Brad Miller:

junkie for that. You know, me. Me, too. That's helping people

Brad Miller:

get through adverse conditions, they get stuck, including things

Brad Miller:

like divorce and abuse, and help them to come to the place. I

Brad Miller:

like to call it peace, prosperity and purpose. So it's

Brad Miller:

been it's been awesome to have you on with us here today,

Brad Miller:

Susan, just a lot of great stuff here, a trilogy of books, called

Brad Miller:

the thriver zone, and you can connect with that at thriver

Brad Miller:

zone.com. That's the best place to get Yeah,

Susan Omillian:

everything's there and some of the, the

Susan Omillian:

women's stories too, so that'd be great.

Brad Miller:

Well, it's been good, good to be with you today.

Brad Miller:

And the key point here is just reclaim your life. If you're a

Brad Miller:

woman and abuse, reclaim your life, find a way that you can

Brad Miller:

not be absolved into remorse and to revenge it's based on abuse

Brad Miller:

to yourself and hurting yourself and hurting others, but to live

Brad Miller:

well and to thrive. And so, it's been a pleasure to have as our

Brad Miller:

guest today, Susan a million, the author of the living and the

Brad Miller:

thriver zone series, her latest book, living in the thrivers

Brad Miller:

zone, a celebration, living well as the best revenge. Our guest

Brad Miller:

today on beyond adversity has been Susan a million

Posted in and tagged