142. There Has to Be More to Life Than This! with Chris McClure the Author of “The Way to Greatness: Discover The Five Continual Choices That Lead To The GREAT Life.”

Brad Miller: 00:00:00

Our guest today is Chris buckler. Chris buckler is

Brad Miller: 00:00:04

an author, a coach and a trainer. And he is all about

Brad Miller: 00:00:08

helping you to understand there is more to life than you

Brad Miller: 00:00:13

thought. In fact, you can have a great life. He is the author of

Brad Miller: 00:00:18

the way to greatness, five continuous choices to lead to

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the great life. He blogs at mcclurg coaching.com. And at

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lead life big.com we're glad to have on beyond adversity today,

Brad Miller: 00:00:33

Chris buckler, Chris, welcome.

Chris McClure: 00:00:35

Thanks so much, Brad. It's awesome to be here.

Brad Miller: 00:00:37

It is awesome to have you here. We have something

Brad Miller: 00:00:40

in common we both come from a background as pastors and

Brad Miller: 00:00:43

churches and, and I've experienced some of the, some of

Brad Miller: 00:00:47

the joys and and, and affirmations of that and some of

Brad Miller: 00:00:50

the challenges of their life. And that led you to some of the

Brad Miller: 00:00:54

things that you're doing now in the business community and

Brad Miller: 00:00:57

writing a couple books. And so but I got a feeling that did

Brad Miller: 00:01:01

you've got an interesting journey that kind of led you to

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where you're at now, could you just share with us a little bit

Brad Miller: 00:01:06

about the pathway that led you may be into ministry and then

Brad Miller: 00:01:09

into what you're doing

Chris McClure: 00:01:10

now? Absolutely, yeah, it's, it's, uh, I always

Chris McClure: 00:01:14

start back when I was 16 years old, when I when somebody asked

Chris McClure: 00:01:16

me that question, because, you know, I was, it was right,

Chris McClure: 00:01:20

between my junior and senior year of high school, I was

Chris McClure: 00:01:22

confused feeling lost that Yeah, I'd grown up in the church, I

Chris McClure: 00:01:26

had a great faith, had great Christian influences, you know,

Chris McClure: 00:01:30

in my, in my life with my family and everything. But, you know,

Chris McClure: 00:01:33

when it came down to career or vocational decisions, I just, I

Chris McClure: 00:01:36

had no no direction until I was, you know, almost a senior in

Chris McClure: 00:01:40

high school. And it was frustrating to me, because I had

Chris McClure: 00:01:43

a lot of friends who knew exactly what they were going to

Chris McClure: 00:01:45

do. They knew what college they were gonna go to, they had all

Chris McClure: 00:01:47

these things planned out, so to speak. Right? And, and my youth

Chris McClure: 00:01:51

pastor came to me, I was very frustrated. And he came to me

Chris McClure: 00:01:54

and he said, you know, would you like to go on a mission trip

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with our team.

Chris McClure: 00:01:58

And the following summer between my junior and senior year, we're

Chris McClure: 00:02:02

going to go to Guyana, South America 17 days. And I didn't

Chris McClure: 00:02:06

know where that country was never heard of it. Didn't didn't

Chris McClure: 00:02:09

know what we're gonna be doing. All I heard was, I was gonna be

Chris McClure: 00:02:12

away from home for 17 days. And I bet that appealed to you.

Chris McClure: 00:02:16

Right? And it did it really like, at that moment, I just

Chris McClure: 00:02:19

felt like I needed to get away, you know, and, and maybe

Chris McClure: 00:02:22

something different would would be good. You know, for me, you

Chris McClure: 00:02:26

know, I just didn't know, I was just feeling I said, feeling

Chris McClure: 00:02:28

frustrated, stuck, lost, about what to do with my life beyond

Chris McClure: 00:02:32

high school. And I felt like that pressure was mounting as I

Chris McClure: 00:02:34

was heading towards my junior year, or my senior year, rather.

Chris McClure: 00:02:37

And so long story short, that I went to this mission trip, you

Chris McClure: 00:02:40

know, we had a great experience there learned a lot. And our

Chris McClure: 00:02:44

youth pastor, we'd have these nightly debriefing meetings

Chris McClure: 00:02:47

about all the work we're doing and, and he would start asking

Chris McClure: 00:02:49

questions, like, you know, it's great that we come here and do

Chris McClure: 00:02:52

this for a couple weeks, but what are we going to do we go

Chris McClure: 00:02:54

back home? And what is it what is your life look like? You

Chris McClure: 00:02:57

know, back home, because this is a short term experience. And,

Chris McClure: 00:03:02

and it was in that moment, where I just knew that God was up to

Chris McClure: 00:03:04

something, and he was really stirring in my heart and got

Chris McClure: 00:03:08

back home and just felt like he, he a guy was saying to me, you

Chris McClure: 00:03:11

know, do what Tommy has been doing for you. You know, help

Chris McClure: 00:03:15

people understand their purpose, help people understand how they

Chris McClure: 00:03:19

can move forward in their own lives. And so, you know, he was

Chris McClure: 00:03:22

my youth pastor. So I thought, well, I'll just go be a youth

Chris McClure: 00:03:25

pastor. You know, it's kinda like when people have a great

Chris McClure: 00:03:27

teacher, and they think, well, I'll just go into teaching,

Chris McClure: 00:03:29

because that's been my great experience. For me, it was my

Chris McClure: 00:03:31

youth pastor was that person. And so he followed a path of

Chris McClure: 00:03:35

your mentor. Yeah, exactly. Just doing Yeah, it works for him,

Chris McClure: 00:03:38

it's maybe it'll work for me.

Chris McClure: 00:03:41

And so he went to Kentucky Christian university, I went and

Chris McClure: 00:03:44

I went and visited the school and decided that was where I was

Chris McClure: 00:03:48

going to go. And so I went from all this fog and lack of clarity

Chris McClure: 00:03:53

to a clear path forward, I'm gonna go be a youth pastor, I'm

Chris McClure: 00:03:56

gonna go to the school, I'm going to, you know, I made all

Chris McClure: 00:03:59

these decisions, like it felt like overnight is really an

Chris McClure: 00:04:01

maybe, maybe a two or three month period, by the, by the

Chris McClure: 00:04:04

beginning of my senior year, I went from total confusion to I

Chris McClure: 00:04:09

felt like a total peace because God had given me a plan and a

Chris McClure: 00:04:12

way forward for to do that. And so, you know, went to college,

Chris McClure: 00:04:17

very motivated at college because of the clarity I had,

Chris McClure: 00:04:20

and had some great internships with some other great youth

Chris McClure: 00:04:23

pastors and leaders that I still revere as as good friends and

Chris McClure: 00:04:27

mentors. And, and that was my journey, you know, and I thought

Chris McClure: 00:04:31

that was gonna be my life. And, and so I did that for there was

Chris McClure: 00:04:35

a youth pastor about 13 to 15 years, I started to shift roles

Chris McClure: 00:04:38

a little bit over time serving three different churches in my

Chris McClure: 00:04:41

full time, church work, but shifted more to an associate

Chris McClure: 00:04:46

role, and then ultimately to an executive pastor role where I

Chris McClure: 00:04:49

was managing a staff and leading teams and developing, you know,

Chris McClure: 00:04:52

things organizationally, and once again, it was it felt like

Chris McClure: 00:04:55

it was that next stepping stone of where God was leading me and

Chris McClure: 00:04:59

and every Thing seemed great until it didn't.

Brad Miller: 00:05:02

So thanks for cruising along relatively well

Brad Miller: 00:05:04

according to your more or less intended path from like dad's

Brad Miller: 00:05:09

high school days on. And then something happened.

Chris McClure: 00:05:12

Yeah. When I was just said, I tell people I'm

Chris McClure: 00:05:14

like, I really didn't have adversity, Brad until I was in

Chris McClure: 00:05:17

my mid 30s. And, and, and I didn't know how to handle it,

Chris McClure: 00:05:21

because he very well, you know, because of that. And I felt

Chris McClure: 00:05:24

like, all of a sudden, I must be doing something wrong, or God

Chris McClure: 00:05:28

must not be happy with something I'm doing or choosing or

Chris McClure: 00:05:30

whatever. Because everything else had come easy. I needed one

Chris McClure: 00:05:34

internship to get out of college, and I ended up with

Chris McClure: 00:05:36

three, I had friends who couldn't get one, you know, to

Chris McClure: 00:05:39

figure it out, I kept finding the next step in my journey in

Chris McClure: 00:05:43

my church work, you know, doors opened, it seemed obvious,

Chris McClure: 00:05:47

smooth transitions, you know, things were just easy for up

Chris McClure: 00:05:51

until I was about 3536 years old. And then it hit you know,

Chris McClure: 00:05:55

and the hit that mark for me was we had a major leadership,

Chris McClure: 00:06:00

conflict or crisis in our church staff where I was serving. And I

Chris McClure: 00:06:04

was I found myself in the middle of something that I didn't ask

Chris McClure: 00:06:06

for didn't want. And, and it was personal on some levels, you

Chris McClure: 00:06:12

know, with people, as we know, in the church, it could get very

Chris McClure: 00:06:14

personal because it is about people first and and all of a

Chris McClure: 00:06:19

sudden, I was like, on my mind, that easy, smooth road that I

Chris McClure: 00:06:23

was on just felt like I got totally disrupted, like boulders

Chris McClure: 00:06:26

were coming down the mountainside, and I didn't know

Chris McClure: 00:06:28

what to do.

Brad Miller: 00:06:30

But apparently, you did something because you ended

Brad Miller: 00:06:33

up transitioning out of the parish ministry into the

Brad Miller: 00:06:36

business world. So whatever impacted you whatever the

Brad Miller: 00:06:41

leadership issues were enough to cause you. A huge pivot in your

Brad Miller: 00:06:47

life and career. So tell us a bit about that. That pivot that

Brad Miller: 00:06:50

transition, some other process that led you there?

Chris McClure: 00:06:53

Yeah, well, even even so. So now now I'm looking

Chris McClure: 00:06:57

back like 2010, I'll say was, I'll say the timeframe that I

Chris McClure: 00:07:00

can think back where this really started to become a thing for me

Chris McClure: 00:07:03

was, I started to feel this pool gravitation to the business

Chris McClure: 00:07:07

community. And back then I didn't have any of this

Chris McClure: 00:07:11

adversity, I didn't have any of these challenges, everything was

Chris McClure: 00:07:13

good at the time for the most part. But and so I didn't

Chris McClure: 00:07:16

understand like, I didn't go to college to get a business

Chris McClure: 00:07:19

degree, I didn't have a plan to go into the business world or

Chris McClure: 00:07:21

anything. And all of a sudden, I felt like this interest, all of

Chris McClure: 00:07:24

a sudden, that started to rise up in me toward the business

Chris McClure: 00:07:27

community and, and I didn't know what to do with it for many

Chris McClure: 00:07:29

years. So it was in it was in the midst of that adversity

Chris McClure: 00:07:32

about five or six years later, where I started to really go

Chris McClure: 00:07:37

God, what do you want me to do? If I'm not doing what I'm doing

Chris McClure: 00:07:39

in my church work? At this local church? What do I do because I

Chris McClure: 00:07:43

don't understand my value in the marketplace. I don't know. I

Chris McClure: 00:07:46

don't know what kind of industry I would go work in. If I were,

Chris McClure: 00:07:49

if I just left to my church job to go find a certain quote

Chris McClure: 00:07:53

unquote, regular job in the in the marketplace, right? I didn't

Chris McClure: 00:07:57

know my value. I didn't know how to write a resume to get noticed

Chris McClure: 00:08:00

all those things. I started interviewing some people that I

Chris McClure: 00:08:02

knew about in the community that were business leaders, owners,

Chris McClure: 00:08:05

nonprofit leaders, just trying to get a feel for like, Where do

Chris McClure: 00:08:08

I fit. And so that was part of my journey was I'm in the middle

Chris McClure: 00:08:13

of this crisis, still dealing with it, wanting out not sure

Chris McClure: 00:08:17

where to go. So I started looking to other people that

Chris McClure: 00:08:20

might give me some clues and some insight on what value Am I

Chris McClure: 00:08:24

bring to the table and everything and different

Chris McClure: 00:08:27

industries. So ultimately, I joined the john Maxwell team, to

Chris McClure: 00:08:32

be a leadership coach, because I thought, you know, I even looked

Chris McClure: 00:08:36

into getting my MBA, getting a master's degree in leadership.

Chris McClure: 00:08:40

But I thought, you know, I really, I really, my kids were

Chris McClure: 00:08:43

young, I didn't really feel like it was the right thing to go

Chris McClure: 00:08:45

back to school at that time, it was gonna take a while. And the

Chris McClure: 00:08:49

john Maxwell team program looked like a great fit for me, I'd

Chris McClure: 00:08:52

been following john and reading his books. And actually, he was

Chris McClure: 00:08:55

the first personal growth book author I think I ever read at 19

Chris McClure: 00:08:59

years old. And so I'd always been following him and

Chris McClure: 00:09:01

appreciated what he had taught and trained and helped me with

Chris McClure: 00:09:04

or, you know, over the years. And so that's the route by when

Chris McClure: 00:09:08

I joined the team to get training and coaching there. And

Chris McClure: 00:09:12

felt like all of a sudden, I better start a business because

Chris McClure: 00:09:14

somebody might actually pay me to do what I'm learning how to

Chris McClure: 00:09:18

do. But once again, had no plan of starting a business. I didn't

Chris McClure: 00:09:22

know what that I thought it was more about building my skill set

Chris McClure: 00:09:25

for more of a resume to find a job. And God was saying, No,

Chris McClure: 00:09:28

start out start a business, you know, people will pay you to, to

Chris McClure: 00:09:32

coach them to do to do training, I was passionate about

Chris McClure: 00:09:34

leadership and personal growth, you know, and so, you know, once

Chris McClure: 00:09:38

again, lots of I tell people, I felt like my family and I were

Chris McClure: 00:09:42

very faithful, you know, throughout our lives, but I felt

Chris McClure: 00:09:45

like in 2015 is really when I learned how to start walking by

Chris McClure: 00:09:48

fan.

Brad Miller: 00:09:49

So around that time what so it sounds like you've

Brad Miller: 00:09:52

had all these internal and dilemmas going on and all these

Brad Miller: 00:09:57

external factors with your church position. Then you have

Brad Miller: 00:10:01

leadership being led in the areas of leadership and personal

Brad Miller: 00:10:04

development. But I want to ask you, Chris, what were some of

Brad Miller: 00:10:08

the actual actions that you had to take some of them even be

Brad Miller: 00:10:12

they internal or be they, you know, going in and talking to

Brad Miller: 00:10:17

some of the leadership that you have to talk to you to make

Brad Miller: 00:10:18

those transitions? Yeah. What were some of the bold actions,

Brad Miller: 00:10:22

some of the pivotal moments that you really had to do?

Chris McClure: 00:10:25

Yeah, I think first of all, I had to make up

Chris McClure: 00:10:27

my mind that I wasn't going to take what I was being dealt

Chris McClure: 00:10:32

without responding. You know, I, I was such a, I'm a people

Chris McClure: 00:10:37

person. And therefore, I had to guard myself about being a

Chris McClure: 00:10:40

people pleaser. And I could have been walked on. And I felt like

Chris McClure: 00:10:45

I was being walked on for a while, like a doormat, and I had

Chris McClure: 00:10:48

to choose not to let that happen and to take responsibility for

Chris McClure: 00:10:53

my life. And it wasn't that I was going to fight back. That

Chris McClure: 00:10:56

wasn't my intent. I didn't, I didn't do that. I wasn't going

Chris McClure: 00:10:59

to do that. But I also wasn't going to just be abused, or, you

Chris McClure: 00:11:04

know, run over either, because I was, you know, I tell people, I

Chris McClure: 00:11:08

was even talking to somebody about this today that when I

Chris McClure: 00:11:11

take the the Clifton Strength Finders assessment, my number

Chris McClure: 00:11:15

one strength is harmony. And my second one is responsibility.

Chris McClure: 00:11:18

When those two things can collide, because I want to keep

Chris McClure: 00:11:21

people harmoniously together, I want to be at peace with people

Chris McClure: 00:11:25

I want to make sure there are there is peace. And then when

Chris McClure: 00:11:27

there's not that, you know, that's hard for me, but I also

Chris McClure: 00:11:30

am responsible. And I want to make sure that things are done

Chris McClure: 00:11:33

well. So for me, I had to take the bold action of saying, okay,

Chris McClure: 00:11:36

enough's enough, I'm not going to just let somebody run me over

Chris McClure: 00:11:38

because of their agenda, I'm going to take responsibility and

Chris McClure: 00:11:42

what I can do on my end, and that's why I started looking for

Chris McClure: 00:11:45

alternatives, because I knew I didn't want to stay in that

Chris McClure: 00:11:48

situation. I couldn't stay in it for a long, long term, it was

Chris McClure: 00:11:52

unhealthy. And so that was bread. That was that first

Chris McClure: 00:11:55

decision was the key Domino for me that fell

Brad Miller: 00:11:58

to start looking for other options take full

Brad Miller: 00:12:00

responsibility to understood that when you're is one thing to

Brad Miller: 00:12:04

sacrifice to serve. But it's another thing to be abused, you

Brad Miller: 00:12:09

know, right. And to. And, and that's where you have to take

Brad Miller: 00:12:13

responsibility, because you can't really serve others. If

Brad Miller: 00:12:16

you're being abused and crushed, you have to have some self

Brad Miller: 00:12:20

confidence and self effort. Yeah, for affirmation.

Chris McClure: 00:12:23

Absolutely. And so for that it was, you know,

Chris McClure: 00:12:25

that and then and then the next step was to, to explore options.

Chris McClure: 00:12:28

You know, like, once again, I said, I interviewed some folks

Chris McClure: 00:12:31

just to kind of get a feel for things, ended up joining the

Chris McClure: 00:12:33

Maxwell team to to get the training and the skills and

Chris McClure: 00:12:37

under my belt, which ultimately led me to a great community of

Chris McClure: 00:12:40

other leaders around the world that I learned about all the

Chris McClure: 00:12:43

options that I could have. And so that that action alone opened

Chris McClure: 00:12:46

my eyes to beyond my church, world bubble that I've been in,

Chris McClure: 00:12:51

which wasn't bad. I mean, you know, I tell people, my

Chris McClure: 00:12:53

experience in church ministry was great. And for the most

Chris McClure: 00:12:56

part, it was this one issue that I really felt like God allowed

Chris McClure: 00:13:00

to happen, so that it kind of kicked me out of the nest of

Chris McClure: 00:13:02

this bubble I was in and to expand my vision to, to show me

Chris McClure: 00:13:07

that he had a bigger plan for me outside of just my local church

Chris McClure: 00:13:10

setting, but that it was that plus, you know, the business

Chris McClure: 00:13:14

community, the business world.

Brad Miller: 00:13:16

I love that analogy. kick you out of the

Brad Miller: 00:13:18

nest.

Unknown: 00:13:19

Yeah. You know,

Brad Miller: 00:13:20

you don't fly until you get other nest, right.

Chris McClure: 00:13:22

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So that so I say that and

Chris McClure: 00:13:26

then, you know, taking the step of, of even making my business

Chris McClure: 00:13:30

official, you know, doing the action of a draw a line in the

Chris McClure: 00:13:34

sand and getting the legal stuff taken care of to get my LLC

Chris McClure: 00:13:37

started. And your I know, that's a

Brad Miller: 00:13:39

huge that's a huge step. Really, because you got to

Brad Miller: 00:13:42

put some, you got to put some legal entity on the line some

Brad Miller: 00:13:45

money on the line, and yeah, make it official. Yeah.

Chris McClure: 00:13:49

And then and then for that, it, you know, after

Chris McClure: 00:13:50

that it was okay, how do I get clients? How do I learn this

Chris McClure: 00:13:53

business? You know, how do I market and myself? How do I get

Chris McClure: 00:13:56

clients to hire me to coach them and to do training and, and that

Chris McClure: 00:14:00

was probably the hardest thing for me, you know, after after I

Chris McClure: 00:14:02

got through the initial phases of, Okay, I'm going to do this,

Chris McClure: 00:14:05

I'm going to go down this path, then it was okay. Now, I've got

Chris McClure: 00:14:08

to get serious, I have to do I have to take action. I've never

Chris McClure: 00:14:12

sold before. I've never done marketing before, you know, so

Chris McClure: 00:14:15

to speak in the in the business community. So I had to learn a

Chris McClure: 00:14:17

lot. And I'm still in a learning process. I tell you, no, but but

Chris McClure: 00:14:20

I am a whole lot further than I was. But I just know, I still

Chris McClure: 00:14:23

have a long way to go. But learning this

Brad Miller: 00:14:26

was, for me, that's awesome. So you took took

Brad Miller: 00:14:29

responsibility, and you took some action, you set up your

Brad Miller: 00:14:31

LLC, and you went to get clients, that kind of thing. So

Brad Miller: 00:14:34

let's so those are some of the actions that you took. I want to

Brad Miller: 00:14:38

kind of take a twist here with you here for just a second here,

Brad Miller: 00:14:41

Chris, and you. You know, you mentioned being from the the

Brad Miller: 00:14:45

church world and the faith based world and yet when things go

Brad Miller: 00:14:48

south there sometimes people can have a real, a real challenge to

Brad Miller: 00:14:52

your faith and I'm not sure if it was the case with you or not.

Brad Miller: 00:14:54

I know that it has happened and in the world of faith based

Brad Miller: 00:14:58

people when something goes south thing, you know, you have to

Brad Miller: 00:15:01

challenge to that. My question to you has to do with behind

Brad Miller: 00:15:05

storm, a believer that one has to draw on a power higher than

Brad Miller: 00:15:08

themselves in order to make true life transformation. Yeah, in

Brad Miller: 00:15:12

what ways in the face of this challenge you may have had to

Brad Miller: 00:15:15

your professional faith based life, were you able to call upon

Brad Miller: 00:15:19

any kind of a source of power higher than yourself, be it

Brad Miller: 00:15:23

spiritual or educational, otherwise, it will help you in

Brad Miller: 00:15:28

this transformation as

Chris McClure: 00:15:30

well. I tell people all the time that, you

Chris McClure: 00:15:31

know, I've heard somebody say that entrepreneurship is one of

Chris McClure: 00:15:34

the most personal growth intensive ventures you can have.

Chris McClure: 00:15:39

I would also argue that it's one of the greatest faith growing

Chris McClure: 00:15:42

ventures you can you can have. And so for me, I find the irony

Chris McClure: 00:15:46

is that I am closer to God, I am more committed to God in my

Chris McClure: 00:15:51

daily disciplines in my ongoing relationship with the Lord,

Chris McClure: 00:15:54

today, because of this journey, than I was even as a pastor in a

Chris McClure: 00:16:00

church setting. Now, it wasn't that I was distant from God,

Chris McClure: 00:16:02

don't get me wrong. But once again, I've had to learn to lean

Chris McClure: 00:16:06

in on God in ways that I didn't have to before because, you

Chris McClure: 00:16:10

know, it's that whole thing of when you know, when the

Chris McClure: 00:16:11

paychecks coming in, when things are steady, when things are

Chris McClure: 00:16:14

good. You know, we can even become dependent on ourselves a

Chris McClure: 00:16:18

little too much. And thinking that, you know, we got it all

Chris McClure: 00:16:20

down. But when we're really out there having to walk by faith,

Chris McClure: 00:16:24

we're tested. And for me, my my faith is like sky. Fire years,

Chris McClure: 00:16:33

through this journey I've been on closely, Lord than ever,

Chris McClure: 00:16:37

outside of the box of the denominational boundaries, maybe

Chris McClure: 00:16:41

that I was raised in or grown up in and served in even, I just

Chris McClure: 00:16:45

feel like God has opened my eyes to things to expand my faith and

Chris McClure: 00:16:48

understanding of him and his word. So for me, yeah, it's that

Chris McClure: 00:16:53

whole pivoting point of you can either go, you know, you can go

Chris McClure: 00:16:56

bitter, or you can get better and, and in my room situation it

Chris McClure: 00:16:59

was, I really believe that this journey has made me a whole lot

Chris McClure: 00:17:02

better personally, but also deeper in my faith and my trust

Chris McClure: 00:17:06

and the Lord. That's awesome. That's awesome.

Brad Miller: 00:17:10

And yet, we have this bias. People I believe, who

Brad Miller: 00:17:16

have go through transformation, especially as they face

Brad Miller: 00:17:19

adversity, do make some choices to take some action. And they do

Brad Miller: 00:17:23

draw on a higher power, it's got to be something spiritual about

Brad Miller: 00:17:26

it. But also, there's an emotional element, there is a

Brad Miller: 00:17:29

relationship element that I believe is so important there

Brad Miller: 00:17:32

and, and basically, that has to do with how you love and

Brad Miller: 00:17:37

experience, love, and share love and how you are empowered by

Brad Miller: 00:17:43

powerful relationships. So tell us what role any kind of

Brad Miller: 00:17:47

relationships I'm talking about either family, or it could be

Brad Miller: 00:17:50

mentorship, it could even be influence of great books and

Brad Miller: 00:17:54

things like this. Tell me about how relationships and

Brad Miller: 00:17:57

relationship building and accountability as a part of a

Brad Miller: 00:17:59

transformation process for you?

Chris McClure: 00:18:01

Yeah, well, like I said, when I joined the

Chris McClure: 00:18:03

Maxwell team, I found myself in a community of people that I

Chris McClure: 00:18:06

would never have engaged with, had I not entered that. And so I

Chris McClure: 00:18:09

had some, I felt like the world opened up relationally to some

Chris McClure: 00:18:13

amazing people that had similar passions. So that that

Chris McClure: 00:18:17

encouraged me and really helped me and knew and kind of found my

Chris McClure: 00:18:19

tribe, you know, so to speak, to really connect with. But my good

Chris McClure: 00:18:24

friend, Mark, who is later now he's become my writing coach and

Chris McClure: 00:18:28

editor for helping me with my books. He felt led by this fear

Chris McClure: 00:18:32

one time to just contact me. And we've been great friends for the

Chris McClure: 00:18:36

last almost six years, because, you know, he felt prompted to

Chris McClure: 00:18:40

reach out to me, and he's 20 years older than me. So he has

Chris McClure: 00:18:45

been, he's been a brother to me. He's been a writing coach, and

Chris McClure: 00:18:48

you know, kind of an author coach to help me through my book

Chris McClure: 00:18:51

product processes. But he's also been a mentor, because he's gone

Chris McClure: 00:18:55

through some significantly hard things in his own ministry

Chris McClure: 00:19:00

career as a church planter and pastor himself over 30 some

Chris McClure: 00:19:03

years. And he helped me navigate the challenges I was facing. And

Chris McClure: 00:19:09

he had been there done that had the T shirt, so to speak. So he

Chris McClure: 00:19:13

was able to help me see where I was better understanding that.

Chris McClure: 00:19:17

So his, his friendship, his mentorship was huge. Yeah, just,

Chris McClure: 00:19:21

you know, I'm thankful that I have a great family. And so I've

Chris McClure: 00:19:23

had family support, you know, I meet a lot of people who are

Chris McClure: 00:19:26

trying to build businesses and do the entrepreneurial thing and

Chris McClure: 00:19:29

they don't have family support. They don't they have more

Chris McClure: 00:19:31

adversity there than because people don't necessarily believe

Chris McClure: 00:19:34

in them or they, they don't think that what they're doing is

Chris McClure: 00:19:36

valuable, or they don't understand it, whatever it may

Chris McClure: 00:19:38

be. I haven't run into that. So I've had I've had this great

Chris McClure: 00:19:42

support system around me, my friends and family, my church

Chris McClure: 00:19:45

that I was serving, I mean, we're still a part of that. That

Chris McClure: 00:19:47

church as a family and people are excited, you know, they read

Chris McClure: 00:19:51

my first book launch there'll be at my next book launch they

Chris McClure: 00:19:54

they've been cheering me on when I when I said I was leaving,

Chris McClure: 00:19:56

officially to go into my business full time. You know, I

Chris McClure: 00:20:00

left with excitement and blessing on you know, from them.

Chris McClure: 00:20:04

And other people are asking me how how things are going all the

Chris McClure: 00:20:06

time, you know, they're really they're in my corner. So. So I

Chris McClure: 00:20:09

think that God plays p key people in my path at the right

Chris McClure: 00:20:14

time that I needed in this new season that I was navigating.

Chris McClure: 00:20:19

And so that was huge for me because it can be a lonely

Chris McClure: 00:20:22

journey, you know?

Brad Miller: 00:20:23

Well, that's encouraging you Well, you I

Brad Miller: 00:20:25

think you need a balance and transform. It's transformative

Brad Miller: 00:20:30

relationships of encouragement and accountability and some

Brad Miller: 00:20:34

coaching occasional kick in the rear and sometimes a pat in the

Brad Miller: 00:20:37

back, you know, all that kind of thing. And certainly, and you

Brad Miller: 00:20:40

certainly need that. And I believe the healthiest ways that

Brad Miller: 00:20:45

happens is when you do have accountability and relationships

Brad Miller: 00:20:48

on different levels, family, spouse, church, mentorship, all

Brad Miller: 00:20:55

that type of thing. Absolutely. And so now you're looking to

Brad Miller: 00:20:58

offer some of that to some others, aren't you? Absolutely.

Brad Miller: 00:21:01

So yeah, that's,

Chris McClure: 00:21:02

that's what I tell people, I feel like I get

Chris McClure: 00:21:03

this, I'm blessed. Because I get to be this guide, or this

Chris McClure: 00:21:08

partner with people in my coaching with them to help them

Chris McClure: 00:21:11

grow, to help them navigate their own challenges to help

Chris McClure: 00:21:14

them even think through their own opportunities. I had a ahead

Chris McClure: 00:21:16

of friend call me this the other night, I was watching my son

Chris McClure: 00:21:21

play soccer, and he's making this this friend of mine is

Chris McClure: 00:21:24

making a career change decision and just asked him to call me

Chris McClure: 00:21:27

and someone beside the soccer sideline, talking to this guy,

Chris McClure: 00:21:30

you know about some things he wants to just kind of run by me

Chris McClure: 00:21:33

and, and I just felt like I had this moment is going, you know,

Chris McClure: 00:21:37

I love what I get to do. And that was just a friend

Chris McClure: 00:21:40

conversation. But people, you know, for professional side of

Chris McClure: 00:21:44

things do pay me for similar conversations and, and training

Chris McClure: 00:21:48

and helping them navigate these things. And so, for me, there's

Chris McClure: 00:21:51

the business side of it, but but it's bigger than that. It's

Chris McClure: 00:21:55

definitely a calling. It's one of those things where, you know,

Chris McClure: 00:21:57

they say, Fine, what you would do for free and and, you know,

Chris McClure: 00:22:01

and find a way to get paid for, you know, I feel like I'm living

Chris McClure: 00:22:03

that, you know,

Brad Miller: 00:22:05

cause there's more, there's more to life than what

Brad Miller: 00:22:08

we sometimes feel like it should be there. It's an opportunity

Brad Miller: 00:22:11

for me to be great. Yeah. So I'd like you to, let's get into your

Brad Miller: 00:22:16

book a little bit about the way to greatness, you talk about

Brad Miller: 00:22:20

five choices, yeah, that people can make. And so tell us a bit

Brad Miller: 00:22:25

about your book, and also in terms of how you can be offer

Brad Miller: 00:22:29

this as a kind of a coaching. encouragement to some of our

Brad Miller: 00:22:35

listeners.

Chris McClure: 00:22:36

Sure, sure. So So I even say this in my book, but

Chris McClure: 00:22:40

I've always said I'm a simple guy, I learned in simple ways I

Chris McClure: 00:22:42

like to teach simply, I like to help people in simple ways. And

Chris McClure: 00:22:46

so the way to greatness is really about, it's got five

Chris McClure: 00:22:48

sections based on these five choices that we need to

Chris McClure: 00:22:51

continually make. And within each of those five choices, I

Chris McClure: 00:22:54

have a five step training process or coaching process that

Chris McClure: 00:22:58

I walk people through to help them really make progress in

Chris McClure: 00:23:01

each of these areas. And so the five choices are one, the first

Chris McClure: 00:23:04

one is build your God course the faith component of your life,

Chris McClure: 00:23:07

it's like the core of your body. You know, when you go to the

Chris McClure: 00:23:09

gym, you got to strengthen your abs and your back everything to

Chris McClure: 00:23:12

make your body strong. So I call it build your God core, your

Chris McClure: 00:23:16

faith core, basically. And then I have protect your

Chris McClure: 00:23:19

relationships. You know, I believe that God wants us to

Chris McClure: 00:23:22

have healthy relationships. And to do that, in order to have

Chris McClure: 00:23:26

them, we have to protect them, we have to do the work to

Chris McClure: 00:23:28

protect them. The third choice is to renew your mind, you know,

Chris McClure: 00:23:33

the apostle Paul said, Romans 12, you know, that we need to

Chris McClure: 00:23:36

transform our minds to be renewed so that we can

Chris McClure: 00:23:39

understand God's will for our lives. The fourth choice is to

Chris McClure: 00:23:43

manage your resources, it's the stewardship component, I mostly

Chris McClure: 00:23:48

talk about money in the book, because that's where most people

Chris McClure: 00:23:50

are, you know, attach that to, but you can certainly expand

Chris McClure: 00:23:54

that to health, another, you know, parts of our lives as

Chris McClure: 00:23:57

well. And then the fifth choice is to, to manage your time, you

Chris McClure: 00:24:03

know, because it's the one non renewable resource we have. And

Chris McClure: 00:24:07

a lot of us squander our time. We have lots of distractions in

Chris McClure: 00:24:10

the world today that we have to fight off every day. And so

Chris McClure: 00:24:13

those are the five choices. And so I walk readers through and my

Chris McClure: 00:24:16

clients through I have a course I have a coaching program that I

Chris McClure: 00:24:19

help people through. Where I'm the point of the way to great is

Chris McClure: 00:24:23

it's really found based on john 1010 in Scripture. You know,

Chris McClure: 00:24:27

when Jesus says that we have this enemy in Satan, the devil

Chris McClure: 00:24:30

comes to steal, kill and destroy, but Jesus said, I've

Chris McClure: 00:24:32

come to give you life to the fool, and some translations a

Chris McClure: 00:24:36

rich, satisfying or abundant life. And so I call it the great

Chris McClure: 00:24:40

life. And it's, you know, that integrate is an acronym that God

Chris McClure: 00:24:44

gave me to kind of frame this but but that's what I believe

Chris McClure: 00:24:48

God wants us to have. And I don't see many people

Chris McClure: 00:24:50

experiencing that.

Brad Miller: 00:24:51

Yeah. When we're to experience that you've got to do

Brad Miller: 00:24:55

the things you were talking about, make a decision to do it

Brad Miller: 00:24:57

and then be, you know, drop On your spiritual life and the

Brad Miller: 00:25:02

relationships, in order to have the great life, you also have to

Brad Miller: 00:25:05

have application of it. No, you have to implement it into your

Brad Miller: 00:25:10

life. And I'd like for you to talk a little bit about how you

Brad Miller: 00:25:14

either you're yourself or how you can advocate for

Brad Miller: 00:25:17

disciplines, habits, practices that maybe come out of your

Brad Miller: 00:25:21

book, or out of your experience that people can implement some

Brad Miller: 00:25:24

of the things you're teaching here. Sure.

Chris McClure: 00:25:26

So my, my chapters aren't called chapters,

Chris McClure: 00:25:29

they're called action steps. So if that tells you anything, I'm

Chris McClure: 00:25:31

an action oriented guy. A lot of people have called me to get it

Chris McClure: 00:25:35

done guy, I'm the I'm the action taker, I'm an implementer, I

Chris McClure: 00:25:38

love to take action. And even before we started, you know, our

Chris McClure: 00:25:41

recording area I was talking about it, I have to focus more

Chris McClure: 00:25:44

on the strategy a lot of time on it, be diligent about that,

Chris McClure: 00:25:48

because I can just jump into action. So I want to what what

Chris McClure: 00:25:51

the book does is give you a, what I call a clear, simple

Chris McClure: 00:25:54

repeatable action plan, that you can go over a time and time

Chris McClure: 00:25:58

again. So I didn't write this book as what as a as a book that

Chris McClure: 00:26:01

you would read once put down and never look at, again, it's more

Chris McClure: 00:26:04

of a guide book with clear action steps to take and review

Chris McClure: 00:26:09

them, you know, because here's the thing I kind of a mountain

Chris McClure: 00:26:13

metaphor has come into my mind through this process of, you

Chris McClure: 00:26:16

know, it's like I heard somebody say, one time, you know, when

Chris McClure: 00:26:18

you're climbing a mountain towards a goal, what happens is

Chris McClure: 00:26:22

you get to the top of that mountain, and all of a sudden,

Chris McClure: 00:26:24

you can see other mountains that you can climb. And so I look at

Chris McClure: 00:26:27

each of these five choices as almost like five mountains that

Chris McClure: 00:26:30

you're climbing. And so if I'm climbing in my faith, I'm

Chris McClure: 00:26:34

growing, I'm growing, I'm growing, I get to the peak of

Chris McClure: 00:26:36

what I thought was the highest level, I could go so to speak.

Chris McClure: 00:26:40

But now I realize I can go further, right, or there's

Chris McClure: 00:26:42

another another next step or another, you know, destination

Chris McClure: 00:26:46

out there. Same thing with our relationships, our mindset, our

Chris McClure: 00:26:50

stewardship, and our time. It's so so it's very action oriented,

Chris McClure: 00:26:55

because I believe that, you know, I'm not going to stop

Chris McClure: 00:26:58

growing till the day I die. You know, I want to keep growing. I

Chris McClure: 00:27:01

want to keep improving. I want to get better every day.

Brad Miller: 00:27:03

Go on if it's 1% go on to perfection is kind of the

Brad Miller: 00:27:07

tradition I come from get better every day. Perfection comes in

Brad Miller: 00:27:10

heaven. That's, that's awesome. That's awesome, man. Well,

Brad Miller: 00:27:13

let's, let's try to implement this now directly to our

Brad Miller: 00:27:17

listeners. What I mean by that is, you mentioned a minute ago,

Brad Miller: 00:27:20

Chris about how a person who called you while you're at the

Brad Miller: 00:27:22

soccer your son's soccer game and, and how you were able to

Brad Miller: 00:27:25

share a little bit with him. But I'd like to hear a little bit

Brad Miller: 00:27:28

about maybe, perhaps what you share with this person. But I

Brad Miller: 00:27:32

this our podcast, beyond adversity is aimed to help

Brad Miller: 00:27:36

people navigate those times, when they are have those pivotal

Brad Miller: 00:27:41

moments, those defining moments. So I just want you to kind of

Brad Miller: 00:27:45

put yourself in the place of, of a young man, young father, who

Brad Miller: 00:27:50

maybe haven't maybe out of the COVID crisis, maybe some

Brad Miller: 00:27:55

situation has happened, the work or in the family, or whatever

Brad Miller: 00:27:58

they are making some. So defining moments before them.

Brad Miller: 00:28:03

What kind of what would you kind of things would you share to

Brad Miller: 00:28:06

that person?

Chris McClure: 00:28:07

Yeah, absolutely. So I think a lot of it is I

Chris McClure: 00:28:09

think about it from like, going on a trip, you know, when you

Chris McClure: 00:28:13

when you're getting ready to plug in your GPS coordinates,

Chris McClure: 00:28:17

right on a trip, you have to know your end destination where

Chris McClure: 00:28:21

you want to go. And so a lot of it where I tell people is, you

Chris McClure: 00:28:25

know, really, there's an exercise to talk about my book

Chris McClure: 00:28:28

about looking out five years, and what he What would you like

Chris McClure: 00:28:31

to see your life looking like five years from now? And, you

Chris McClure: 00:28:35

know, who are you with? What are you doing? What are the sights,

Chris McClure: 00:28:38

the smells, the sounds, I mean, just get into that moment of

Chris McClure: 00:28:41

that vision of what five years can look like, and then start to

Chris McClure: 00:28:45

backtrack and go Okay, well, to get there. What did I have to

Chris McClure: 00:28:49

do? To get there? What were what was what I had to do in year

Chris McClure: 00:28:53

1234, you know, up to year five? Because I think a lot of

Brad Miller: 00:28:57

reverse engineering type of thing.

Chris McClure: 00:28:58

Yeah. Yeah. Because it's, well, Stephen

Chris McClure: 00:29:01

Covey, you know, always said, What beginning with the end in

Chris McClure: 00:29:04

mind, yes, you know, and so if you, if we, if I use the

Chris McClure: 00:29:08

analogy, that what the GPS thing, if you don't plug in the

Chris McClure: 00:29:11

right destination, it'll take you somewhere you can, you can

Chris McClure: 00:29:14

start your GPS, and it'll show you that you're going places,

Chris McClure: 00:29:18

but it's not necessarily going to take you to where you

Chris McClure: 00:29:20

ultimately want to end up. And so you need to determine your

Chris McClure: 00:29:24

destination, you know, where do you want to go? And then you

Chris McClure: 00:29:27

need to start taking action towards getting there. And so,

Chris McClure: 00:29:31

the first key A lot of times, I think people are reacting,

Chris McClure: 00:29:34

especially in moments of adversity, and I know I found

Chris McClure: 00:29:37

myself there was, you know, I was just trying to get out or

Chris McClure: 00:29:40

run away even for a moment. And God had to kind of slow me down

Chris McClure: 00:29:45

and say, okay, but what is the bigger picture here? You know,

Chris McClure: 00:29:48

and and asking the question, why what you know, what did you know

Chris McClure: 00:29:52

Simon Sinek kind of made it, you know, very popular with start

Chris McClure: 00:29:55

with why, you know, in his book A few years ago, but right you

Chris McClure: 00:29:58

know, digging deeper and I Dennis with clients, you know,

Chris McClure: 00:30:00

I'll ask him why three to five times just to get down to more

Chris McClure: 00:30:04

the core of why they say they want to accomplish something or

Chris McClure: 00:30:06

do something or go somewhere, whatever. So I think a lot of it

Chris McClure: 00:30:09

is that beginning with you in mind asking why you want to get

Chris McClure: 00:30:12

there to get to your core, you know, purpose in life and your

Chris McClure: 00:30:16

core calling. And then once again, defining what are the

Chris McClure: 00:30:20

steps I need to take. And I think that was one of the things

Chris McClure: 00:30:23

for me. I heard I heard a video by john Maxwell, when I was in

Chris McClure: 00:30:28

that process of making a decision about joining the

Chris McClure: 00:30:32

Maxwell team, and what am I gonna do? And he said something

Chris McClure: 00:30:35

that really stuck with me and it was, you know, in his case, he

Chris McClure: 00:30:38

said, 10 years from now, he said, you know, where do you

Chris McClure: 00:30:40

wanna be 10 years from now, but but one of the question that

Chris McClure: 00:30:43

really got me was, Well, what do you need to do in the next 30

Chris McClure: 00:30:45

days? To start down that path?

Brad Miller: 00:30:47

What's your next steps? Right?

Chris McClure: 00:30:49

Yeah. And so for me, I think that's where a lot

Chris McClure: 00:30:51

of people, you know, whatever, you know, area of law, and I

Chris McClure: 00:30:55

chose these, you know, I feel like God gave me these choices.

Chris McClure: 00:30:58

First of all, because there are five areas that people struggle

Chris McClure: 00:31:00

with regularly. But, but each of these it's kind of same thing.

Chris McClure: 00:31:05

Where do you want to go? What, what do you want your fate to

Chris McClure: 00:31:07

look like? What do you want your relationships look like? What do

Chris McClure: 00:31:09

you how do you want to be thinking about life? And you

Chris McClure: 00:31:13

know, how do you want your money and finances to look like and

Chris McClure: 00:31:16

what do you want your time freedom, your lifestyle to look

Chris McClure: 00:31:18

like?

Brad Miller: 00:31:20

Do you want to be great?

Chris McClure: 00:31:21

Yeah, right? And what does great look like today

Chris McClure: 00:31:25

to you? Because here's the thing, what that vision of

Chris McClure: 00:31:28

greatness looks like five years from now, when I get there, I'm

Chris McClure: 00:31:31

going to have a new expanded vision of what greatness looks

Chris McClure: 00:31:35

like from there. Right? And so it's this it continually grows,

Chris McClure: 00:31:39

and it continually expands when you when you really do that

Chris McClure: 00:31:44

exercise. So I think that's a lot of it is slowing down

Chris McClure: 00:31:47

journaling, thinking, praying, you know, talking to some

Chris McClure: 00:31:50

trusted advisors, mentors, family members that, you know,

Chris McClure: 00:31:54

kind of mapping out your life and going okay, here's where

Chris McClure: 00:31:57

I've been, here's my situation, where do I, if, if today was day

Chris McClure: 00:32:00

one, as every day really is, What do I want? The next days to

Chris McClure: 00:32:05

look like? What do I do next months and years look like?

Brad Miller: 00:32:08

Perhaps a part of that process is picking up the

Brad Miller: 00:32:11

way to greatness, discover the five continual choices that lead

Brad Miller: 00:32:15

to the great life, and maybe getting connected with crisper

Brad Miller: 00:32:19

clearer. So how can people do that if they want to get

Brad Miller: 00:32:21

connected and learn more about you and what you have to?

Chris McClure: 00:32:24

Well, specifically to this book, they

Chris McClure: 00:32:27

can actually Bradley can go get a free copy of the book The way

Chris McClure: 00:32:30

to greatness, calm and just pay a small shipping handling fee,

Chris McClure: 00:32:33

and I'll send it out to them right away. So I have that offer

Chris McClure: 00:32:36

out there. By my website where you know, more details. I

Chris McClure: 00:32:41

actually had my own podcast, I've kind of paused it for a

Chris McClure: 00:32:44

while. But it's lead life big calm. And so I have podcast

Chris McClure: 00:32:49

episodes there I've blog articles there. That's where

Chris McClure: 00:32:52

kind of my resource hub for the way to greatness, you know,

Chris McClure: 00:32:55

where it all started, so to speak. So there's there's that

Chris McClure: 00:32:59

and then through there, they can connect with me as well. You

Chris McClure: 00:33:03

know, I also have a clerk coaching calm, which is more my

Chris McClure: 00:33:05

executive leadership coaching, business side of things that I

Chris McClure: 00:33:09

that I have over there. So I work with entrepreneurs and

Chris McClure: 00:33:13

executives and, and even with them, you know, I'm trying to

Chris McClure: 00:33:15

help them with Yes, leadership, but really, it's about their

Chris McClure: 00:33:18

life I want I want people that are high level leaders to be

Chris McClure: 00:33:22

able to have the kind of life that they're really working so

Chris McClure: 00:33:24

hard for a lot of times they're not because they're so busy in

Chris McClure: 00:33:27

the business that they're not, you know, growing in these core

Chris McClure: 00:33:30

components of life,

Brad Miller: 00:33:31

so help help people discover that the indeed there

Brad Miller: 00:33:34

is more to life than this. Absolutely. Yeah. So want to

Brad Miller: 00:33:38

thank you for being with us. His name is Chris mclr. His book is

Brad Miller: 00:33:42

the way to greatness. Discover the five continuous choices that

Brad Miller: 00:33:47

lead to the great life. We thank Chris buckler for being our

Brad Miller: 00:33:50

guest today on the beyond the diversity podcast.