How to Overcome Self-Sabotage with Susie Hayes Author of “FREED from Stuck! Part 1

Susie Hayes is Dr. Brad Miller’s guest on Episode 260 of “The Beyond Adversity Podcast.”

Susie has a Master’s Degree in Counseling and a Master’s Degree in Education with a BA in Special Education. She has been in private practice since 1982 in Denver, Colorado.

As an acclaimed and registered Psychotherapist, Susie is a member of the International Board of Clinical Practitioners and the Colorado Association of Psychotherapists. Susie developed and directed two counseling centers in Wheat Ridge and Littleton, providing counseling and educational services to individuals, couples, and families in the community.

Susie authored the award-winning book “FREED from Stuck! Dare to Cross the Bridge Beyond Grief, Trauma, and Self-Sabotage to Discover Lasting Change Now” which deep dives into the 6-step F.R.E.E.D method she developed to help people move across the bridge beyond grief, trauma, and self-sabotage from all walks of life.

In this episode, Susie talks about her own transformative process—dealing with familial and personal issues that she decides to go for her own personal therapy towards healing. Susie shares a tragic story of dealing with an unpredictable and abusive mother and how that shaped her outlook in life and questions her worth and role in the world.

Life has never been easy, and people have different experiences dealing with personal issues. Some people will dive into depravity and never recover. In contrast, others treat this horrific experience as a springboard to elevate and transform their life anew.

Susie Hayes believes that a spiritual journey happens to everyone, whether we recognize it or not. As spiritual beings, there is a divine essence in us that aligns with our awareness. She believes that there is a magnificent resource within us that can be cultivated.

Susie Hayes’s story is a transformational testament that it takes more than just courage to walk away from the pain and suffering—you must be willing to ask difficult questions and face the tough answers. More than that, let go of things that are important to you.

Episode 260 of The Beyond Adversity Podcast is a must-listen for people who are stuck—people who don’t know what to do and doubt their purpose in life and have trouble facing the hard truth in front of them.

“The Beyond Adversity Podcast with Dr. Brad Miller is published weekly with the mission of helping people “Grow Through What They Go Through” as they navigate adversity and discover their promised life of peace, prosperity, and purpose. 

https://susiehayesnow.com/

Are you stuck? Take the Freed from Stuck Quiz: https://susiehayesnow.com/are-you-stuck-take-the-freed-from-stuck-quiz/

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Transcript
Dr. Brad Miller::

We have Susie Hayes with us.

Dr. Brad Miller::

She’s all about helping you get freed, from stuck.

Dr. Brad Miller::

And that’s the name of her book, freed from stuck,

Dr. Brad Miller::

dare to cross the bridge beyond grief, trauma and

Dr. Brad Miller::

self sabotage to discover lasting change.

Dr. Brad Miller::

Now, she comes to us from a background

Dr. Brad Miller::

as a psychotherapist and a life and business coach.

Dr. Brad Miller::

And she’s our guest today on beyond adversity, Susie Hayes,

Dr. Brad Miller::

welcome to our podcast today.

Susie Hayes::

Thank you so much, it is an honor.

Dr. Brad Miller::

Indeed, thank you so much for being

Dr. Brad Miller::

with us taking some time to connect up

Dr. Brad Miller::

with our audience here of folks who have

Dr. Brad Miller::

made a determination that they will not remain stuck,

Dr. Brad Miller::

we’re going to get through whatever is going

Dr. Brad Miller::

on in their lives and to come out to a better place.

Dr. Brad Miller::

And that’s what you’re all about helping people get unstuck. Is that right?

Susie Hayes::

That is true, absolutely.

Dr. Brad Miller::

Very good. Well, that,

Dr. Brad Miller::

well, that tells me Suzie there. If you’re

Dr. Brad Miller::

all about helping other people get freed from being stuck,

Dr. Brad Miller::

that tells me that there may have been a time in

Dr. Brad Miller::

your life that you may have been stuck in some

Dr. Brad Miller::

situation or circumstance in life. And you found a

Dr. Brad Miller::

way to break free of that tells a little bit about

Dr. Brad Miller::

about that circumstance, or that situation in your life,

Dr. Brad Miller::

or maybe a couple that maybe kind of set the

Dr. Brad Miller::

foundation of what you do now with your

Dr. Brad Miller::

authorship and your coaching.

Susie Hayes::

Probably the most significant shift

Susie Hayes::

point for me was when I was in graduate school,

Susie Hayes::

finishing my master’s in education.

Susie Hayes::

And I realized that even though everything

Susie Hayes::

was really going well, I was not happy.

Susie Hayes::

I felt alone. And in that experience,

Susie Hayes::

I decided to go into my own personal therapy.

Susie Hayes::

And from that transformative process, where

Susie Hayes::

I realized that my being stuck my being in

Susie Hayes::

pain, my feeling of being alone, was really

Susie Hayes::

an indicator of unattended pain, and trauma

Susie Hayes::

from my history. So as I entered into the

Susie Hayes::

therapy process, I began to feel the transformation

Susie Hayes::

of healing. And from that, not only because

Susie Hayes::

of that experience, but just because of the

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personal satisfaction I received. In the process,

Susie Hayes::

I decided to stay and get an additional

Susie Hayes::

Master’s in Counseling, which changed the

Susie Hayes::

trajectory of my work slightly.

Susie Hayes::

So I moved from education into counseling and

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coaching and then eventually added other

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modalities such as hypnosis, but it was really

Susie Hayes::

from recognizing the impact of my history.

Susie Hayes::

And realizing that I needed to shift my internal

Susie Hayes::

experience of myself of how I had thought

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I was to really discover who I really am.

Susie Hayes::

That that was a major change point for me.

Susie Hayes::

And it wasn’t until decades, decades later, after

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I had worked with many, many people in the

Susie Hayes::

change process that I realized that for all of

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those years, whether it was through counseling,

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or coaching or speaking or writing, what I was doing

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was helping people become freed from stuck.

Susie Hayes::

And so that was really a later evolution.

Susie Hayes::

But the foundation of where I really began,

Susie Hayes::

that journey was in in my own personal internal work.

Dr. Brad Miller::

So by seeing your own personal internal work,

Dr. Brad Miller::

you mean circumstances in your childhood

Dr. Brad Miller::

or in relationships, or health related.

Dr. Brad Miller::

And I’m just going to push you just a little

Dr. Brad Miller::

bit to be a little bit more specific about some

Dr. Brad Miller::

of the challenges that you faced, that led you

Dr. Brad Miller::

to that point, in graduate school of being feeling

Dr. Brad Miller::

stuck or unhappy or a less, you know, I work with

Dr. Brad Miller::

people who’s talking about some sort of sense of

Dr. Brad Miller::

meaning less-ness. So can you go there with me just

Dr. Brad Miller::

for a second, a little more detail?

Susie Hayes::

Yes, it was really. It was really the awareness

Susie Hayes::

that I had grown up in an environment where

Susie Hayes::

I had a very loving father, but I had a very

Susie Hayes::

unpredictable abusive mother. Okay. And I

Susie Hayes::

actually dealt with her very much in isolation,

Susie Hayes::

like nobody knew that that’s what happened

Susie Hayes::

behind closed doors. We were, you know,

Susie Hayes::

very actively involved particularly in our church

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that was central to my growing up and to our

Susie Hayes::

value system, and to everyone else, it appeared

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that she was just this really nice, loving, sweet lady.

Susie Hayes::

They didn’t know about her outbursts, they didn’t

Susie Hayes::

know that she could be physically abusive.

Susie Hayes::

They didn’t know how unpredictable and

Susie Hayes::

controlling she could be. Those were all behaviors

Susie Hayes::

that she manifested when she became anxious.

Susie Hayes::

And what was interesting about it was that those

Susie Hayes::

incidents usually happen because she believed

Susie Hayes::

that she was being protective of me.

Susie Hayes::

And so she would, she would become really

Susie Hayes::

sometimes out of out of control just in her anger.

Susie Hayes::

And as I began to understand it in my history,

Susie Hayes::

and began to understand her better I was later

Susie Hayes::

on that I realized that it was not her intention

Susie Hayes::

to be abusive, though she was, it was really

Susie Hayes::

that she was trying to protect me. And all of

Susie Hayes::

that took a lot of work to come to that understanding.

Susie Hayes::

Right. So, but that was really an experience

Susie Hayes::

that left me very confused, and feeling isolated

Susie Hayes::

and alone and unprotected. And so that then

Susie Hayes::

caused me to form certain beliefs about myself,

Susie Hayes::

or to question my worth, what do I deserve?

Susie Hayes::

What should I expect in relationships.

Susie Hayes::

And fortunately, I began this journey, as a young

Susie Hayes::

adult, where I, it served me well as I moved into

Susie Hayes::

my adult years in terms of making decisions regarding

Susie Hayes::

relationships, but it was a very, very difficult thing

Susie Hayes::

to come to terms with, and to acknowledge and

Susie Hayes::

also to, to grieve the fact that she was not the

Susie Hayes::

mother that I would have wanted. She was not

Susie Hayes::

the mother that others saw her to be.

Dr. Brad Miller::

Her persona was different than the internal,

Dr. Brad Miller::

behind closed doors and the description

Dr. Brad Miller::

a lot of people go through, when they’re stuck,

Dr. Brad Miller::

they feel stuck internally, but externally, they still function somehow.

Susie Hayes::

Right. Right. And so yeah, so it was,

Susie Hayes::

it took, it took courage, it took the willingness

Susie Hayes::

to ask questions to face difficult answers.

Susie Hayes::

And it also required a grieving, letting go of

Susie Hayes::

beliefs that I had, or wishes that I had, and

Susie Hayes::

hoping that she would be other than how she was.

Susie Hayes::

So that’s such an important part of change

Susie Hayes::

in our lives is that it really often requires that

Susie Hayes::

we let go of things that are important to us, but do not serve a few.

Dr. Brad Miller::

You’ve mentioned several

Dr. Brad Miller::

things here that I think are so important here.

Dr. Brad Miller::

Soon as he as we start to unpack what you went

Dr. Brad Miller::

through and begin the process of seeing how that’s

Dr. Brad Miller::

going to be helpful to our audience. Many of them

Dr. Brad Miller::

have had similar experiences with their family of

Dr. Brad Miller::

origin and how that’s then been moved to the

Dr. Brad Miller::

other phases of life, young adulthood, or in a

Dr. Brad Miller::

marriage or family of their own or other

Dr. Brad Miller::

workplace type of things. But I’m interested,

Dr. Brad Miller::

you said to courage, and you had to deal

Dr. Brad Miller::

with some grief. And you had to deal with some

Dr. Brad Miller::

understanding about a public persona and internal life,

Dr. Brad Miller::

you know, things are just different. But it also said

Dr. Brad Miller::

you go back to do you actually chose to go through

Dr. Brad Miller::

some counseling yourself and therapy on your own right.

Dr. Brad Miller::

So what I’m getting at here with you, Susie,

Dr. Brad Miller::

what do you think are some of the kind of the cognizant,

Dr. Brad Miller::

intentional and cognizant decisions that you made

Dr. Brad Miller::

to take some action to not stay stuck anymore?

Dr. Brad Miller::

Because that’s the key thing here, what what your

Dr. Brad Miller::

premise is about, not staying stuck, but even along

Dr. Brad Miller::

the line as a young person, you took some action.

Dr. Brad Miller::

So I know, therapy was one of those but tell us a

Dr. Brad Miller::

bit more about actions that you took to get

Dr. Brad Miller::

better and to come to a better place.

Susie Hayes::

The therapeutic work was foundational. For me.

Susie Hayes::

Another aspect of my own growth and change

Susie Hayes::

process has always been education. And by that

Susie Hayes::

I mean I am an ongoing, an avid student.

Susie Hayes::

I’m always studying I’m always learning. I’m

Susie Hayes::

always asking questions and if there was anything

Susie Hayes::

that was a great gift from my history, it was really

Susie Hayes::

from my father, who encouraged me to ask questions,

Susie Hayes::

he encouraged me to be curious. And this served me

Susie Hayes::

well throughout my life. And so that was really foundational.

Susie Hayes::

But I think, Brad, that one of the things that is so

Susie Hayes::

important if we are going to become freed from stuck,

Susie Hayes::

if we’re going to move out of adversity, if we are going to

Susie Hayes::

create effective change in our lives, is that one of the

Susie Hayes::

most important questions we have to ask is, do I believe,

Susie Hayes::

do I know that I deserve this? Do I know that I deserve a

Susie Hayes::

better quality of life? Do I know that I deserve to live

Susie Hayes::

peacefully, to be content, to have quality relationships,

Susie Hayes::

to be comfortable to be safe to have the things that,

Susie Hayes::

that bring me enjoyment and satisfaction and pleasure?

Susie Hayes::

Do I know that I deserve that? And if we have been wounded

Susie Hayes::

or mistreated or abused it leaves us with a real

Susie Hayes::

foundational question about that. And we have to come

Susie Hayes::

to a point where we say yes, yes, I deserve a better

Susie Hayes::

quality of life, I deserve to know that I can make

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choices to create something different than my history,

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I know that I can be a different person, for example,

Susie Hayes::

than my my mother was, I do not have to

Susie Hayes::

become what she was. And so those are the really

Susie Hayes::

deep, powerful questions that are so important for

Susie Hayes::

us to be able to move through those

Susie Hayes::

challenges in those difficult and dark times.

Dr. Brad Miller::

What we’re talking about here is a transition or transformation,

Dr. Brad Miller::

from a sense of meaning less-ness, to a sense of meaningfulness,

Dr. Brad Miller::

which is to search I believe all people have is that sense of

Dr. Brad Miller::

meaningfulness purpose in life and so on. And so

Dr. Brad Miller::

many people don’t have and I my own term for

Dr. Brad Miller::

what you describe as being stuck, I call it the malaise of

Dr. Brad Miller::

mediocrity, where you just stay kind of stuck in this

Dr. Brad Miller::

vortex have keep going on because you feel that

Dr. Brad Miller::

you are not able to break out of that and think of

Dr. Brad Miller::

several factors that you talked about education.

Dr. Brad Miller::

You talked about asking good questions.

Dr. Brad Miller::

I wonder if you mentioned one aspect of your growing

Dr. Brad Miller::

up that can sometimes be helpful and sometimes

Dr. Brad Miller::

be hurtful you, you mentioned about your relationship to the

Dr. Brad Miller::

church being central, I want to touch you for just a

Dr. Brad Miller::

second about any sensibility about how any connection

Dr. Brad Miller::

to a power greater than self, a spirituality or a divine

Dr. Brad Miller::

presence, or anything along this line meditation

Dr. Brad Miller::

at the longest line has played into your personal

Dr. Brad Miller::

transformation. And then that can also

Dr. Brad Miller::

be a part of what you can teach others?

Susie Hayes::

I actually believe that our spiritual journey

Susie Hayes::

is happening to us whether or not we recognize

Susie Hayes::

it, or we identify it in that way, because I believe that

Susie Hayes::

we are all spiritual beings, meaning that we have

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been created with this amazing intelligence in us and

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we are created from the same energy that the stars

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and the moon and the mountains are created from

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we have that, if you will, divine essence in us.

Susie Hayes::

And anything in our spiritual journey that is in

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alignment with that awareness of who we really are,

Susie Hayes::

and the magnificent resources that

Susie Hayes::

we have inside of ourselves. To create our life

Susie Hayes::

is going to be beneficial. So for some people,

Susie Hayes::

it’s an alignment with an organized or structured religion.

Susie Hayes::

For some it is meditation, or some it is spending time in nature.

Susie Hayes::

For some, it’s being a part of a spiritual community.

Susie Hayes::

Others find that in creative expression, I mean,

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there are any number of ways that we can support

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and cultivate our awareness of ourselves as spiritual beings,

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which is really about accessing that deep intelligence

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inside of us, that will always serve us well. And it’s very,

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very important that we find that journey that works

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for us as individuals, and sometimes that means moving

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away from a certain structure, it may mean leaving a certain

Susie Hayes::

theologic whole framework, it may mean finding a different

Susie Hayes::

spiritual community, whatever it is, it’s so important that

Susie Hayes::

we discover that deep resource inside of us.

Dr. Brad Miller::

That sounds like you would be an agreement that

Dr. Brad Miller::

it’s still important to make a connection to some sort

Dr. Brad Miller::

of deep and abiding spiritual presence or resource as a

Dr. Brad Miller::

part of a personal transformation.

Dr. Brad Miller::

Is that a part of where where you’re at?

Dr. Brad Miller::

And what you’re talking about here?

Susie Hayes::

I would say that is true. And I would,

Susie Hayes::

I would say that in my work with people,

Susie Hayes::

sometimes Brad, there are people who live more Christian than Christians.

Susie Hayes::

Do you know what I’m saying?

Dr. Brad Miller::

I know, yes, I know exactly what you’re saying.

Susie Hayes::

Yes, there are agnostics and there are atheists

Susie Hayes::

that are that are more Christ-like than many

Susie Hayes::

Christians, right? Meaning that they live those

Susie Hayes::

principles without the the theological or

Susie Hayes::

religious structure. Yes. That being said,

Susie Hayes::

I do find that people who have more of a

Susie Hayes::

an attunement or a curiosity or alignment with spirituality,

Susie Hayes::

tend to find the journey of change easier,

Susie Hayes::

because they see that as a resource for them.

Dr. Brad Miller::

Yeah. Well, with that way I think of it is

Dr. Brad Miller::

this is a great resource to draw on that you need

Dr. Brad Miller::

to be connected to a power greater than itself.

Dr. Brad Miller::

Otherwise, you’re just looking upon only yourself power,

Dr. Brad Miller::

which is a good thing. But to have to be truly enhanced,

Dr. Brad Miller::

you need a power greater than itself. And that’s just kind

Dr. Brad Miller::

of where I’m at on things sound like we have some

Dr. Brad Miller::

agreement on that. And that doesn’t necessarily

Dr. Brad Miller::

come from organized religion. You know, religion

Dr. Brad Miller::

has to do with rituals and so on. And that’s, in many

Dr. Brad Miller::

times a good thing but other times it has to do with

Dr. Brad Miller::

some personal journey. And I think part of what we’re

Dr. Brad Miller::

talking about here is one’s personal journey to go from

Dr. Brad Miller::

that place of being stuck. You can people choose

Dr. Brad Miller::

to stay stuck, right, Susie? But if you’ve got to get

Dr. Brad Miller::

unstuck you got sometimes you need to leverage

Dr. Brad Miller::

all the resources at hand, including the spiritual element

Dr. Brad Miller::

and emotional relationships and physical health.