181: How A Change Of Heart About His Career Led One Man To Change The World Thru Intergration Of Business and Life Calling With Carey Green

Carey Green is Dr. Brad Miller’s guest on Episode 181 of “The Beyond Adversity Podcast.”

In this episode, Carey shared how his experiences working in a ministry, dealing with different people, and moving to foreign places have been somewhat a challenge for him.

Carey Green was a pastor in various churches across the US. It was a rewarding and humbling role that he would never trade.

In 2011, Carey began to feel the end of his calling in that role. His conviction was (and is) that the church deserves a Pastor whose heart is entirely in part – and he was not. It was the right move.

Carey experienced disappointment, pain, and discouragement when building a church in that particular location. He and his wife were called in to help save a church when the former pastor’s marriage fell apart. Carey described the event as being like watching the death of a church with his own eyes.

He attempted to fix things with the church and its members at first, but as time passed, he realized that some things were simply beyond his abilities to mend. He had the impression that it wasn’t just working for him but also for the church. He gradually realized that fewer people were there, and the crowd diminished. He resigned, knowing it wouldn’t work, persuading members to choose someone more suited and with whom they could connect. The church subsequently closed down after about a month.

He needed to find a new job, and he was fortunate enough to get recruited as a cable man, where he goes into people’s backyards and disconnects wires if they have not paid their overdue account. He had to take on additional occupations, even if they weren’t what he had planned on doing, to put food on the table and keep in mind that they are only renting a house for his entire family.

Carey eventually returned to ministry and was sent to another church, where he was determined to make it work no matter what. It was almost as if they were having an open conversation with the new church members since they were asking for an opinion on how Carey should govern the church. They held family gatherings where individuals individually spoke up about specific issues, and some issues were resolved only due to this act of communication.

For those spiritually inclined Christians struggling with some elements of life, Episode 181 of The Beyond Adversity Podcast is a must-listen. We have all been in situations where we feel out of control and hopeless because we are left with few options, but as Carey says in this episode, we must never forget that God will not allow anything wrong to happen to us and that we must trust Him that He will provide for all of our needs as long as we are willing to take action because Faith without Action is useless. 

“The Beyond Adversity Podcast with Dr. Brad Miller is published weekly with the mission of helping people “Grow Through What They Go Through” as they navigate adversity and discover their promised life of peace, prosperity and purpose. 

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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/careyngreen/

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Transcript

Dr. Brad Miller 0:00

We're glad to welcome to Beyond adversity. Uh, Carey Green, welcome.

Carey Green 0:05

Hey, Brad, thanks so much for having me on. This is really a pleasure.

Dr. Brad Miller 0:09

It's a pleasure for me as well, my friend.

Dr. Brad Miller 0:11

And you and I do have some similar backgrounds.

Dr. Brad Miller 0:15

I am a retired pastor still have my hand in ministry.

Dr. Brad Miller 0:20

And I also have my hand in the business world of podcasting,

Dr. Brad Miller 0:23

and, and publications and things of this nature.

Dr. Brad Miller 0:26

And you have a similar story

Dr. Brad Miller 0:29

of being in ministry and then transitioning to

Dr. Brad Miller 0:31

the business world, particularly in podcasting.

Dr. Brad Miller 0:33

And but they're met, there's a story there.

Dr. Brad Miller 0:35

It's a story of why that happened.

Dr. Brad Miller 0:37

And if you don't mind, I'd like for you

Dr. Brad Miller 0:39

to share a little bit about your story

Dr. Brad Miller 0:41

about some of the things you face

Dr. Brad Miller 0:42

or some of the challenges you may face

Dr. Brad Miller 0:43

to lead to this transition in your life,

Dr. Brad Miller 0:46

from the life of full time Christian ministry

Dr. Brad Miller 0:48

into what you're involved without.

Dr. Brad Miller 0:50

Tell us your story a little bit, Carey?

Carey Green 0:52

Yeah, well, I was happily serving

Carey Green 0:54

in ministry for almost 20 years,

Carey Green 0:56

we had had four different churches

Carey Green 0:58

that we serve during that time,

Carey Green 1:00

from associate pastor all the way

Carey Green 1:02

into teaching pastor roles.

Carey Green 1:04

And overall, generally speaking,

Carey Green 1:06

I think you'd say it was a good experience,

Carey Green 1:08

we had our challenges and our ups

Carey Green 1:10

and downs for certain.

Carey Green 1:12

There were a couple of times where I was in church

Carey Green 1:14

planting contexts and experienced a lot of pain

Carey Green 1:18

and disappointment and discouragement in those settings.

Carey Green 1:20

Because it's a very hard thing to do planting a church.

Carey Green 1:22

And it's not always one that goes like you plan.

Carey Green 1:26

And one of those scenarios in particular,

Carey Green 1:29

I've often said that I kind of oversaw the death of a church

Carey Green 1:32

because there's a church that already existed

Carey Green 1:35

and my wife and I were called in, to kind of salvage things

Carey Green 1:38

after the pastor's marriage had some issues.

Carey Green 1:42

And he was removed from the position.

Carey Green 1:44

And so when we stepped in,

Carey Green 1:46

there was a decent group there.

Carey Green 1:48

But as things progressed,

Carey Green 1:50

it became very evident, there was more damage

Carey Green 1:52

under the surface than anyone knew.

Carey Green 1:54

And my style of ministry didn't necessarily jive with the style of ministry,

Carey Green 1:59

the church was used to.

Carey Green 2:00

And so just little by little decreased in,

Carey Green 2:04

in attendance and a membership in it,

Carey Green 2:06

it came a time where I just felt like these,

Carey Green 2:08

these folks needed a different leader than than me

Carey Green 2:11

and so I resigned, encouraging them to continue seeking out

Carey Green 2:15

someone that's better suited for the the needs that they had,

Carey Green 2:18

and it just didn't, it just didn't pan out.

Carey Green 2:20

And the church decided to close,

Carey Green 2:22

probably a month, month and a half later.

Carey Green 2:24

And so, you know, if you come through a situation like that,

Carey Green 2:27

yet, you ask all the questions of, you know,

Carey Green 2:30

is there something wrong with me?

Carey Green 2:31

Did I not have what it took?

Carey Green 2:33

Was I a failure, you know, all of those sorts of things.

Carey Green 2:36

But, in my case, my wife,

Carey Green 2:40

along with my faith in God,

Carey Green 2:42

were instrumental in helping me to kind of reorient

Carey Green 2:45

and examine what really happened

Carey Green 2:47

and did I, with integrity of heart,

Carey Green 2:50

do my work the best that I could

Carey Green 2:51

and serve the people, you know,

Carey Green 2:54

in a genuine and honest way.

Carey Green 2:56

And I had to say that I did.

Carey Green 2:57

You know, for me, a lot of getting through adversity

Carey Green 3:00

and difficulty is his mindset.

Carey Green 3:01

It's all about how you frame the situation

Carey Green 3:04

and the stories that you tell yourself about it.

Carey Green 3:08

And when the stories that you tell yourself are untrue,

Carey Green 3:13

then your response to the adversity tends

Carey Green 3:16

to be skewed and negative, you know,

Carey Green 3:18

none of us can act according to something

Carey Green 3:20

that's not true in and come out in a place of reality,

Carey Green 3:24

we've wind up living a false kind of life.

Carey Green 3:27

And so I had to, you know, with my wife's help,

Carey Green 3:30

and the help of others think through

Carey Green 3:31

what happened and come to a place of realizing,

Carey Green 3:33

you know, I did the best I could in God's strength

Carey Green 3:35

and the string that he provides.

Carey Green 3:37

And, you know, we, we just walked the path

Carey Green 3:40

that he gave us to walk in.

Carey Green 3:42

So that's just one example of the kinds of adversity

Carey Green 3:45

that you experienced in pastoral ministry.

Carey Green 3:47

And then, specifically about the transition.

Dr. Brad Miller 3:49

Yeah, well, just a touch there for a sec,

Dr. Brad Miller 3:53

before we move on to the transition is that

Dr. Brad Miller 3:56

there's a sense of sensibility about the investment

Dr. Brad Miller 3:59

that pastors make and quarterback

Dr. Brad Miller 4:01

and their families into what they're involved with,

Dr. Brad Miller 4:04

which is notable. I mentioned, I'm retired pastor,

Dr. Brad Miller 4:08

but I spent a significant part of my time as a church planter,

Dr. Brad Miller 4:12

and it included the demise of a church plant.

Dr. Brad Miller 4:16

And I just still am reminded

Dr. Brad Miller 4:18

about how incredibly painful that time was,

Dr. Brad Miller 4:22

in some ways still is, lingers with you,

Dr. Brad Miller 4:25

but how you see it does make all the difference.

Dr. Brad Miller 4:28

But we're I've just want to relate to the folks

Dr. Brad Miller 4:31

who are listening here on our podcasts

Dr. Brad Miller 4:33

that whatever you go through it, it can define you

Dr. Brad Miller 4:38

or you can define it and that's part of what we're talking about

Dr. Brad Miller 4:40

here is the actions that you take

Dr. Brad Miller 4:42

and so let's go on with your story.

Dr. Brad Miller 4:44

Now, my friend about you know, what happened to you

Dr. Brad Miller 4:47

what kind of transitions happen you

Dr. Brad Miller 4:48

what particularly What actions did you take

Dr. Brad Miller 4:51

you said you left the church?

Dr. Brad Miller 4:52

What actions did you take for next steps after that?

Carey Green 4:56

Yeah, well, next steps we had to kind of make decisions

Carey Green 5:00

about where we were going to live.

Carey Green 5:01

Because obviously, we were living in a certain city

Carey Green 5:04

to serve that certain church.

Carey Green 5:05

And it wasn't a city, my wife, right either had lived in before.

Carey Green 5:08

So there's no family there.

Carey Green 5:10

There's no support structure other than the remaining friends

Carey Green 5:13

we have from the church.

Carey Green 5:13

And so we had to make decisions

Carey Green 5:15

about what are we going to do for living arrangements?

Carey Green 5:18

And how are we going to earn income and you know,

Carey Green 5:19

all those kinds of things that are very practically.

Carey Green 5:23

And so we temporarily moved back to Colorado,

Carey Green 5:27

and which is where we were from Arizona,

Carey Green 5:29

it's where we got married, and had lived for many years.

Carey Green 5:32

And so we went back there lived in my in laws,

Carey Green 5:35

basement of 800, square foot, with,

Carey Green 5:39

with our five kids, just all crammed in the little basement

Carey Green 5:43

and a dog and a cat, you know, so

Dr. Brad Miller 5:45

the visual image or the visual imagery right now alone is a little scary to me.

Dr. Brad Miller 5:50

But yeah, please go on, especially for where you came from.

Dr. Brad Miller 5:54

But it had to be different. Yeah,

Carey Green 5:56

yeah, it was, it was cozy for sure.

Carey Green 5:58

We pulled in there in the middle of in the middle of December,

Carey Green 6:01

with snow on the ground and all of our belongings

Carey Green 6:06

in a in a trailer or truck I can't remember

Carey Green 6:09

and loaded them all into my father in law's garage,

Carey Green 6:12

and stayed there for three months.

Carey Green 6:15

During that three month, I'm looking for any kind of job I can find.

Carey Green 6:18

I'm looking for any kind of temporary living situation

Carey Green 6:22

that we can find because I had resumes out to other churches

Carey Green 6:25

and I had made those decisions

Carey Green 6:28

to pursue ministry again, in a different setting,

Carey Green 6:31

but had not gone very far down the process, you know,

Carey Green 6:33

and that that process can take quite a long time in ministry.

Carey Green 6:37

So found a job working for a cable company

Carey Green 6:41

going into people's backyards and disconnecting cable

Carey Green 6:44

you know, when they didn't pay their bills

Carey Green 6:46

and those kinds of things.

Carey Green 6:46

Not the most glamorous or,

Carey Green 6:49

you know, career ambitious goal,

Carey Green 6:51

but it put some food on the table.

Carey Green 6:52

Do what you got to do sometimes.

Carey Green 6:54

Yeah, yeah, you absolutely do.

Carey Green 6:56

And then three months after we had been there,

Carey Green 6:58

we moved into a temporary position

Carey Green 7:00

the Lord provided a townhome for us to live in,

Carey Green 7:03

but it was not your dream home either.

Carey Green 7:03

It was a townhome,

Carey Green 7:07

a guy had been renovating to sell.

Carey Green 7:10

And I don't remember exactly how it connected with him.

Carey Green 7:13

But I, I was looking for a month to month lease,

Carey Green 7:15

because we were expecting we would move

Carey Green 7:17

whenever the opportunity came up.

Carey Green 7:19

And he was willing to rent it to us month to month,

Carey Green 7:21

but it wasn't finished. And so we moved into a townhome

Carey Green 7:25

that felt like it was under construction.

Carey Green 7:26

And because it was in live lived there for a short period of time.

Carey Green 7:31

And we refer to those two,

Carey Green 7:35

three month periods as the six months.

Carey Green 7:37

It was one of the hardest times for our family.

Carey Green 7:41

It it was a dark spot that at the same time

Carey Green 7:44

a bright spot because my middle daughter

Carey Green 7:46

was just this beacon of faith.

Carey Green 7:48

She was just so optimistic and so encouraging to all

Carey Green 7:51

of us in very, very much.

Carey Green 7:54

So an uncommon thing for girl her age,

Carey Green 7:57

I think she was 12 at the time or something like that.

Carey Green 7:59

So what a gift. What a gift. Yeah, it was a great gift.

Carey Green 8:04

And so shortly after that is when

Carey Green 8:05

we were offered another position at a church in Colorado.

Carey Green 8:09

So we made another move,

Carey Green 8:11

and began pastoring again, in a in a small church up in the mountains.

Carey Green 8:15

And so, you know, you're asking about actions.

Carey Green 8:18

I think what I've learned both in life and from the Scripture is,

Carey Green 8:23

if you're trusting the Lord, if you're trusting God

Carey Green 8:27

really has your best interest in mind.

Carey Green 8:29

And he really is guiding you in a path.

Carey Green 8:31

It's not random, and it's not happenstance.

Carey Green 8:34

Then even in those difficult times, like the six months

Carey Green 8:36

that we we kind of laugh about now.

Carey Green 8:40

He has that firmly in his hand,

Carey Green 8:42

and he's taking you somewhere that is going to serve his purposes,

Carey Green 8:46

which ultimately is the best thing for you.

Carey Green 8:48

And so it wasn't always easy to see during that six months.

Carey Green 8:52

Sure, but it's something that we've learned through it.

Dr. Brad Miller 8:55

Another classic, Carey, it sounds like a classic

Dr. Brad Miller 8:59

wilderness type experience that so many people have

Dr. Brad Miller 9:01

when they go through profound change.

Dr. Brad Miller 9:03

They have a time in the wilderness

Dr. Brad Miller 9:05

where they just kind of just, you know,

Dr. Brad Miller 9:06

just kind of struggling a little bit.

Dr. Brad Miller 9:09

But you get through just wandering.

Dr. Brad Miller 9:11

Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Yeah.

Dr. Brad Miller 9:13

So you went back into ministry and another church, and how that go.

Dr. Brad Miller 9:18

And then how did you end up transitioning out of that one?

Carey Green 9:21

Well, that particular church we ran for six years.

Carey Green 9:24

It was a church that had been without a pastor for two years

Carey Green 9:27

by the time we got there.

Carey Green 9:28

And so there was a very small group of people there.

Carey Green 9:32

There is a very sordid history of various pains

Carey Green 9:36

and hurts that they had experienced

Carey Green 9:37

throughout those two years and even before

Carey Green 9:40

and so we felt that one thing we've learned

Carey Green 9:42

from our previous position where

Carey Green 9:45

there was more damage than anybody knew

Carey Green 9:47

was that we should come into the situation

Carey Green 9:50

and rally everyone who remains together

Carey Green 9:53

and kind of process what had happened

Carey Green 9:55

over the last six years, or the last two years rather,

Carey Green 9:58

even though we hadn't been there.

Carey Green:

We were in the position of leadership

Carey Green:

to instigate that conversation.

Carey Green:

And so we had a family meeting of the entire church,

Carey Green:

we laid out the scenario the best as

Carey Green:

we knew it to be, and asked people to

Carey Green:

share what the hurts were that they

Carey Green:

had experienced and how they had overcome the

Carey Green:

situations very much like what you

Carey Green:

and I are doing now. And in that meeting,

Carey Green:

so much healing happened,

Carey Green:

because people heard their friend across the room

Carey Green:

sharing their deepest heard

Carey Green:

about the situation and the things, they thought

Carey Green:

were being done and said,

Carey Green:

that they had never heard before.

Carey Green:

And many times that person was believing a

Carey Green:

story that wasn't true. And so

Carey Green:

someone in the room was able to correct it.

Carey Green:

And someone in the room was able

Carey Green:

to affirm them, instead of allowing them to continue

Carey Green:

feeling trapped in this negativity

Carey Green:

that they felt. And there was so much

Carey Green:

healing that happened there. And we

Carey Green:

learned a great lesson

Carey Green:

there that there's no difficulty in no hardship

Carey Green:

that you've been through. That's so terrible,

Carey Green:

it shouldn't be talked through. And it shouldn't

Carey Green:

be processed with the help of people who

Carey Green:

love you. And it can be done. You don't always

Carey Green:

need a therapist, you don't always need a

Carey Green:

counselor, you need caring, loving people who

Carey Green:

will walk with you and help you see the

Carey Green:

truth of the situation. And that that really

Carey Green:

was a beneficial thing in that situation.

Dr. Brad Miller:

But you knew need the leadership

Dr. Brad Miller:

in order to initiate and instigate the action.

Dr. Brad Miller:

To help that happen. People often do not do

Dr. Brad Miller:

that of their own accord, and you as a pastor or

Dr. Brad Miller:

other leaders had to step up and say,

Dr. Brad Miller:

Okay, we got to do this to have any future here together.

Carey Green:

Yeah, exactly. We knew there was

Carey Green:

nowhere good that we could go if we didn't deal with that.

Carey Green:

And, and so we had a, we had a great

Carey Green:

five or six years there, and just ministering

Carey Green:

alongside people, loving people,

Carey Green:

spending time teaching, the word of God just had a

Carey Green:

lot of great things happen

Carey Green:

while we were there. And it was during

Carey Green:

that season, that my wife first and then me secondarily began feeling that there was just a removal of the calling to be in ministry. And for someone who's not in ministry, that may sound like an

Carey Green:

odd thing to say, or an odd way to describe it.

Carey Green:

But it was just this lack of zeal.

Carey Green:

For the very heart of the job. We we didn't

Carey Green:

feel called to stand alongside a group

Carey Green:

of people any longer and help

Carey Green:

them navigate things like I just described,

Carey Green:

it just it just was like the desire

Carey Green:

and the passion to do that had gone.

Dr. Brad Miller:

We know a lot of people have that

Dr. Brad Miller:

feeling of whatever their career is. But

Dr. Brad Miller:

they got it out anyhow, they stick it out.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Yeah. And why did you, you know, so

Dr. Brad Miller:

many people have done that, and

Dr. Brad Miller:

whatever career path, but it's certainly

Dr. Brad Miller:

ministry, and you and I have seen that

Dr. Brad Miller:

happen. Whereas some people have, you know,

Dr. Brad Miller:

continue to serve well past their

Dr. Brad Miller:

usefulness. What did why did this, why

Dr. Brad Miller:

did you not? Maybe you thought

Dr. Brad Miller:

about that. But what did you not do that?

Dr. Brad Miller:

And what was the impetus to move on to something else?

Carey Green:

Yeah, that's a great, a great perspective

Carey Green:

to dig into. Because I am the kind of person

Carey Green:

and I was raised to be the kind of person

Carey Green:

that you don't quit. You just keep plugging away.

Carey Green:

You can get through anything, all

Carey Green:

of that. But I've, I've had to come to see

Carey Green:

that there is a wisdom in assessing

Carey Green:

the situation and seeing the reality of

Carey Green:

whether you still fit the need of the

Carey Green:

situation when you're in a position of leadership

Carey Green:

in my wife, and I spent a long time pondering

Carey Green:

that we called in a leader from the

Carey Green:

denomination that we were serving to help

Carey Green:

us kind of assess. And he first of all, asked

Carey Green:

us a little bit more about our past and

Carey Green:

realize that within almost 20 years, we

Carey Green:

had never really taken a break other than

Carey Green:

that time when I was working for six

Carey Green:

months outside ministry. And so he suggested that

Carey Green:

we take a sabbatical. And so we did,

Carey Green:

we took a four month sabbatical, the church

Carey Green:

was very generous to provide that for us.

Carey Green:

And the assumption was, after

Carey Green:

the four months, we would come back, energized

Carey Green:

and kind of refocused and ready to go

Carey Green:

at it again. And it was within six

Carey Green:

months of coming back, just that same

Carey Green:

depletion, and that same loss was there.

Carey Green:

And we had no other conclusion to make,

Carey Green:

except that this just isn't a fit anymore.

Carey Green:

And it was hard for me to relinquish that drive to keep going.

Carey Green:

But we did. And we, out of integrity just felt like

Carey Green:

the church deserves someone who has

Carey Green:

their heart in it. Not someone

Carey Green:

who's just doing it for the paycheck. That's

Carey Green:

not what ministry is about. And so we announced

Carey Green:

our resignation, but we gave a three

Carey Green:

to six month timeframe to allow time

Carey Green:

to put structures in place and people

Carey Green:

in place and all the things in place that

Carey Green:

would enable the church to move on

Carey Green:

healthily once we left and so I think it was right

Carey Green:

about the six month mark on that

Carey Green:

timeframe that we departed and again,

Carey Green:

I knew nothing about where at what

Carey Green:

I was gonna do, didn't know how to feed the family

Carey Green:

didn't know where we would live.

Carey Green:

At the time. We lived in a neighboring town

Carey Green:

to where the church was, and really

Carey Green:

loved where we lived and loved our house.

Carey Green:

In didn't really want to move. And so,

Carey Green:

you know, I made the decision to start

Carey Green:

looking for any job, anything that could

Carey Green:

support the family. And in a small

Carey Green:

mountain town, when you're a family of

Carey Green:

seven people, there's not a lot there

Carey Green:

that supports the kind of lifestyle that

Carey Green:

you're used to. And so it was our hearts our choice.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Reality came into play didn't at that point.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Yes, really did. Yeah. So why did

Dr. Brad Miller:

you do you had to do something? What did you do? Yeah,

Carey Green:

yeah. Well, I, I had talked with a

Carey Green:

friend who was in the real estate industry.

Carey Green:

And he was suggesting to me that the area

Carey Green:

needed some mortgage loan originators,

Carey Green:

mortgage brokers so to speak, who could

Carey Green:

serve the area that they're there just wasn't

Carey Green:

enough. And so I thought that was a good

Carey Green:

idea, it would be a way I could

Carey Green:

provide for the family significantly. And so I

Carey Green:

did some schooling and got some

Carey Green:

training and certified and got certification

Carey Green:

to be a loan officer and actually got

Carey Green:

a job with a Colorado company that would

Carey Green:

allow me to stay in our mountain

Carey Green:

town and serve that area, and began writing

Carey Green:

mortgage loans for people did that

Carey Green:

for about a year, and it just wasn't a good fit,

Carey Green:

I'm not a sales oriented person.

Carey Green:

And you really do have to be a sales

Carey Green:

oriented person for that role, because

Carey Green:

you have to drum up your own leads

Carey Green:

and, and walk people through the

Carey Green:

sales process and all of that. And

Carey Green:

so I probably closed five loans in that

Carey Green:

one year, which isn't very many for a

Carey Green:

full time living. And at the same time

Carey Green:

was doing odd jobs doing anything I

Carey Green:

could to put food on the table. And, and

Carey Green:

then at that point is when I had begun doing a

Carey Green:

little bit of audio editing work on the side

Carey Green:

for people. And was getting paid for that a

Carey Green:

little bit. And a friend of mine

Carey Green:

who's a believer in Christ as well, who I was

Carey Green:

working with on a video call, said you

Carey Green:

should make a business out of this, there's so

Carey Green:

many people that need this

Carey Green:

service in really don't want to learn it

Carey Green:

themselves. And so there was like a great

Carey Green:

big light bulb that went off. And I started moving

Carey Green:

in that direction. And within a few

Carey Green:

months, I had five clients, within a few months,

Carey Green:

I had 10 within another, you know, a few months

Carey Green:

after that we had 15 or 20. And

Carey Green:

it just grew really quickly. And it was mainly

Carey Green:

by word of mouth, mainly by just a real soft email

Carey Green:

sent to people who I knew probably

Carey Green:

had the need, just asking if they would like to chat in.

Carey Green:

And before long, we had a business that was supporting us.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Well, that's awesome.

Dr. Brad Miller:

And that's where you're at right now with

Dr. Brad Miller:

podcasting, fast track. And you

Dr. Brad Miller:

have other things you're involved with, as

Dr. Brad Miller:

well with coaching and some other things.

Dr. Brad Miller:

And we're going to get admitted about

Dr. Brad Miller:

your process, your live build, change

Dr. Brad Miller:

process. But let's just clarify for a minute, some of

Dr. Brad Miller:

the actions that you that you took

Dr. Brad Miller:

you listened to your heart and to your wife, and to others.

Dr. Brad Miller:

And then you also had just conversations

Dr. Brad Miller:

with those folks and with your church folks.

Dr. Brad Miller:

And then you kind of did what you had to do.

Dr. Brad Miller:

You took the jobs, mortgage and other

Dr. Brad Miller:

things you did, you took some action, and

Dr. Brad Miller:

then you found your aha moment,

Dr. Brad Miller:

so to speak, to go towards some areas. So

Dr. Brad Miller:

I'm just clarifying some of the actions that you took.

Dr. Brad Miller:

And it's so important. I think if you want to have fulfillment in your life,

Dr. Brad Miller:

as you begin to move, you got to physically

Dr. Brad Miller:

move. In other words, you got to take action,

Dr. Brad Miller:

you got to physically move, in order for God to

Dr. Brad Miller:

engage or freeing us to engage in your

Dr. Brad Miller:

life, we cannot stay stuck, or numb as many

Dr. Brad Miller:

people have done, and to expect

Dr. Brad Miller:

anything really to happen. So that's the action is there.

Dr. Brad Miller:

And but I'm interested also, and you

Dr. Brad Miller:

know, you're a man of faith, and you continue to do

Dr. Brad Miller:

various forms of mission and ministry

Dr. Brad Miller:

in your life. But tell us about some of the

Dr. Brad Miller:

inner spiritual transformations that took

Dr. Brad Miller:

place in this process as well carry, you know,

Dr. Brad Miller:

it's not only about the taking action is about the

Dr. Brad Miller:

inner life and the spiritual life for other practices

Dr. Brad Miller:

that you made meditation journaling, perhaps.

Dr. Brad Miller:

But tell us about that transformation

Dr. Brad Miller:

that took place there, especially in this sense

Dr. Brad Miller:

of you and I talk shop for a secondary

Dr. Brad Miller:

calling, which is a particular thing in ministry,

Dr. Brad Miller:

but really everybody has a calling of some sort.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Let's talk about the inner life.

Carey Green:

Yeah, well, during that whole season,

Carey Green:

obviously, your faith in God is tested.

Carey Green:

Because you find bills on the table that you can't

Carey Green:

pay, and you find situations your kids are into at

Carey Green:

school where fees are needed for some activity

Carey Green:

and you don't know where the money's gonna

Carey Green:

come from. So, you know, the hard realities of

Carey Green:

life of the responsibilities that we've taken on

Carey Green:

have got to be addressed. And from a

Carey Green:

spiritual standpoint, you know, we we

Carey Green:

believe as Christians, God is our provider,

Carey Green:

he calls himself Yahoo. Jireh is a Jewish

Carey Green:

word that means provider. And so that's a

Carey Green:

promise he's made to us. And so in those

Carey Green:

moments, we could sit on our hands and say,

Carey Green:

Well, God's my provider, he's gonna, he's

Carey Green:

gonna give me what I need. And while that's a

Carey Green:

true statement, the reality is he most of the

Carey Green:

time provides through us believing he's

Carey Green:

going to provide and then acting as if He will provide.

Carey Green:

And that means going and knocking on doors,

Carey Green:

finding odd jobs doing those sorts of things.

Carey Green:

And, and he really strengthened my faith in those

Carey Green:

ways, showing me that faith without

Carey Green:

action is not really faith at all. Because you're not,

Carey Green:

you're not believing in him enough to

Carey Green:

actually act like he's going to do something about it.

Carey Green:

And so it's a hard to change of perspective

Carey Green:

to have sometimes, but the kind of faith I think,

Carey Green:

is biblical faith is not a wishing kind

Carey Green:

of faith like, oh, I have faith that God's gonna

Carey Green:

do X, Y and Z. Yeah. But then you just

Carey Green:

sit and wait. Biblical faith is active, and

Carey Green:

biblical faith moves in, in response to

Carey Green:

what God has committed himself to do.

Carey Green:

And so that like some people transformation,

Dr. Brad Miller:

I think some folks think of God as some

Dr. Brad Miller:

sort of a cosmic vending machine or

Dr. Brad Miller:

something like this, you just kind of just say,

Dr. Brad Miller:

okay, a plugin XYZ prayer, or need,

Dr. Brad Miller:

boom, here it is. And that's just not the way it is.

Dr. Brad Miller:

God is much more much more

Dr. Brad Miller:

concerned about our development as people

Dr. Brad Miller:

and as men and women of faith,

Dr. Brad Miller:

families of faith, that about our comfort,

Dr. Brad Miller:

and sometimes Yeah, get out of our,

Dr. Brad Miller:

our comfort zone to do

Carey Green:

Yeah, and I would, I would add to that,

Carey Green:

as well, Brad, God is also concerned

Carey Green:

about his own glory, meaning, who he is

Carey Green:

matters, yes, in who we are, matters.

Carey Green:

And for us to treat him like a vending

Carey Green:

machine is very disrespectful to him. Absolutely.

Carey Green:

It's not connected to him in relationship,

Carey Green:

it's not valuing who he is, and can be in our lives,

Carey Green:

it's just treating him as a servant, rather

Carey Green:

than who he is the king of the universe.

Carey Green:

And so, that aspect really came into

Carey Green:

focus for us during that time as well.

Dr. Brad Miller:

I think it also digger gates, the power

Dr. Brad Miller:

of grace, you know, grace is about love

Dr. Brad Miller:

that it's not deserved. And somehow, when we

Dr. Brad Miller:

kind of put an expectation on it, that,

Dr. Brad Miller:

you know, that this kind of takes grace and

Dr. Brad Miller:

turns it on its head, I don't care for, for that

Dr. Brad Miller:

understanding of things. And so you've

Dr. Brad Miller:

had this transition Go on now, and you've had the

Dr. Brad Miller:

inner life, and you've had taken

Dr. Brad Miller:

action and, and you now have this

Dr. Brad Miller:

opportunity to serve others, and you're have

Dr. Brad Miller:

a business. And now you've kind of shifted

Dr. Brad Miller:

your whole life, haven't you really,

Dr. Brad Miller:

from ministry, which is basically a nonprofit

Dr. Brad Miller:

orientation, essentially, you know,

Dr. Brad Miller:

to now you are having a profitable business

Dr. Brad Miller:

and other things that you're

Dr. Brad Miller:

involved with. So tell us about how you are

Dr. Brad Miller:

still continued to serve others now.

Dr. Brad Miller:

And what you do now, how you live out a new

Dr. Brad Miller:

form of ministry, if you will, in the

Dr. Brad Miller:

business world? How you love others, you

Dr. Brad Miller:

know, in this process, and which

Dr. Brad Miller:

I think that we can do in the business

Dr. Brad Miller:

context, just tell us a little bit about that

Dr. Brad Miller:

process for you, in your live Bill change

Dr. Brad Miller:

process, for instance, that you're involved with?

Carey Green:

Yeah, well, what you're referring to is a

Carey Green:

is a little movement that I started a few

Carey Green:

years back called Live Bill change in the

Carey Green:

concept behind it is that as believers in Christ,

Carey Green:

we need to learn how to live authentically

Carey Green:

as believers in Christ, not just with a said faith,

Carey Green:

but with an act of faith that really is,

Carey Green:

is moving us in a direction where we can

Carey Green:

then build something that will not only

Carey Green:

generate income for ourselves, but also

Carey Green:

generate funds that we can use to then

Carey Green:

change the world around us. And it's built on a

Carey Green:

belief that that real faith is active in

Carey Green:

that real faithful people are generous, and are

Carey Green:

giving toward the needs of others.

Carey Green:

And so that's what the liberal change concept is about.

Carey Green:

And so through that, I've done some

Carey Green:

coaching with folks, I've done some

Carey Green:

podcast episodes about the whole Christian

Carey Green:

approach to business and, and it's

Carey Green:

really influenced a lot, the way that I run my

Carey Green:

business as well. You know, you

Carey Green:

hear a lot of companies that have values,

Carey Green:

you know, their company values and their

Carey Green:

value statement and that sort

Carey Green:

of thing. And I don't know the actual statistics,

Carey Green:

but it appears to me that

Carey Green:

maybe 20% of them actually make decisions

Carey Green:

based on their values.

Carey Green:

The others, it's just something they put on their

Carey Green:

website to look good, and to try and

Carey Green:

win people over to become customers.

Carey Green:

But what I found in my business is

Carey Green:

if you're not making your decisions, according

Carey Green:

to your values, and if those

Carey Green:

values are not, are not legitimate, positive values,

Carey Green:

then you're really not serving anyone

Carey Green:

at all. You're just in it for the money. And I think

Carey Green:

as a Christian, especially, that's

Carey Green:

not how we should run our business, our

Carey Green:

business, the values that we have, we believe

Carey Green:

people are more important than things.

Carey Green:

And so those things could be deadlines,

Carey Green:

financial obligations, you know,

Carey Green:

the income and profitability of the business,

Carey Green:

all of those things. So we made

Carey Green:

decisions, that from a business standpoint,

Carey Green:

a lot of business coaches

Carey Green:

would tell you, that's not a very smart decision.

Carey Green:

But it was a decision based

Carey Green:

on a higher value that this person needs

Carey Green:

more this this month, even though

Carey Green:

they're not doing the work for it, that would

Carey Green:

warrant it, just because they're in need.

Carey Green:

And we as a business can help and can

Carey Green:

can be a blessing to them. And I believe

Carey Green:

that's what God's given me a

Carey Green:

business is to be able to not only provide for

Carey Green:

my needs, but to care for others in the process.

Carey Green:

And so, you know, that's how we run

Carey Green:

Podcast Fast Track is trying to put the

Carey Green:

team first, then the client, and we and we try

Carey Green:

and serve both equally well. And in

Carey Green:

my experience, Brad is when you treat your

Carey Green:

team like gold, they repay you,

Carey Green:

and they repay the clients and gold. They

Carey Green:

just, they work harder, they do a better job

Carey Green:

because they they're appreciated and cared for.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Well, this goes back to relationships,

Dr. Brad Miller:

you know about how transformation is also

Dr. Brad Miller:

not only it's an action thing, it's not

Dr. Brad Miller:

only a thinking thing, it's an emotional thing,

Dr. Brad Miller:

you know? Yeah, personal and business

Dr. Brad Miller:

transformation means if we develop a loving,

Dr. Brad Miller:

caring genuine relationships based

Dr. Brad Miller:

on values within the body, whether via

Dr. Brad Miller:

local church, for instance, you described

Dr. Brad Miller:

some local church bodies, which had

Dr. Brad Miller:

destructive relationships, whatever they were,

Dr. Brad Miller:

I think I know, because I've seen them

Dr. Brad Miller:

myself and look at studies, I've done my

Dr. Brad Miller:

share of dealing with that kind of thing in

Dr. Brad Miller:

church consulting, as well. But you

Dr. Brad Miller:

also see in the business context, and a built

Dr. Brad Miller:

about building trust and care,

Dr. Brad Miller:

and then also translates to your customers.

Dr. Brad Miller:

And so tell me just go a little

Dr. Brad Miller:

further, just a little bit for a minute here,

Dr. Brad Miller:

Carrie about that, about the power of loving,

Dr. Brad Miller:

caring, genuine relationships to build life

Dr. Brad Miller:

transformation for you and for your customers,

Dr. Brad Miller:

and therefore help build a better life for yourself and for others.

Carey Green:

Yeah, well, there's, there's a

Carey Green:

famous saying, by Zig Ziglar, that you can

Carey Green:

get everything in life you want if you help

Carey Green:

other people get what they

Carey Green:

want, right. And there's a truth to that.

Carey Green:

I think it often comes across as very self serving,

Carey Green:

though, rather than genuinely

Carey Green:

serving. I know Zig didn't mean it that way.

Carey Green:

But that's often how it's used and the

Carey Green:

context in which it's quoted. My belief is,

Carey Green:

I have to put the ideas of profitability and

Carey Green:

benefit to myself and the company aside,

Carey Green:

whenever I'm trying to serve a person,

Carey Green:

I've got to see the person as more

Carey Green:

important than that thing of profitability. And

Carey Green:

when I'm able to serve genuinely like that,

Carey Green:

then what Zig said really is true,

Carey Green:

it does come about that the service I provide

Carey Green:

somehow in God's economy comes

Carey Green:

around to be a blessing to us. And Jesus Himself

Carey Green:

said, it's more blessed to give than to receive.

Carey Green:

And sometimes that is a practical

Carey Green:

blessing that comes back to you other times,

Carey Green:

it's just the nourishment of your own soul,

Carey Green:

knowing that you're growing in Christ's likeness,

Carey Green:

and you're becoming a blessing to

Carey Green:

others in greater ways as you live. Yeah.

Carey Green:

And so with my team, one of our

Carey Green:

policies is every interaction a client has with

Carey Green:

us whether it's email, a phone,

Carey Green:

call a video call, whatever it is, we want it to

Carey Green:

be sweet. We want it to be

Carey Green:

loving, we want them to remember how

Carey Green:

they felt interacting with us in

Carey Green:

a positive way, not in a negative way.

Carey Green:

Because it's those sorts of

Carey Green:

interactions and those sorts of interchanges,

Carey Green:

that build customer loyalty,

Carey Green:

and build a positive relationship where we can

Carey Green:

actually, serve them better.

Carey Green:

And, and it's, it's just this interesting cycle.

Carey Green:

That actually works, because

Carey Green:

that's the way God made the universe to work.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Yeah, I think it may be appropriate

Dr. Brad Miller:

to interject even a kind of a churchy term here

Dr. Brad Miller:

for just a minute that stewardship,

Dr. Brad Miller:

about being a good steward of the resources that we have,

Dr. Brad Miller:

which is not just money, it is our time,

Dr. Brad Miller:

our effort, our attitude, our ideas, the whole bed.

Dr. Brad Miller:

And if you are good stewards of that,

Dr. Brad Miller:

and what's been given to you and

Dr. Brad Miller:

what you give them to others.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Just kind of this sense of God's

Dr. Brad Miller:

God's economy is that it'll come back to you,

Dr. Brad Miller:

it'll come back to you and it'll

Dr. Brad Miller:

you'll be a resource rather than obsessing,

Dr. Brad Miller:

you know, a tithing mentality or

Dr. Brad Miller:

a certain mentality, as you give your

Dr. Brad Miller:

first fruits away, then you were,

Dr. Brad Miller:

you're using your resource, whereas the

Dr. Brad Miller:

hoarding mentality is one where you,

Dr. Brad Miller:

if you have a leftover, then you give it away.

Dr. Brad Miller:

So what I'm hearing you say

Dr. Brad Miller:

is that this relationships are key to that.

Dr. Brad Miller:

And that is awesome. Yeah.

Carey Green:

And I think also that giving is,

Carey Green:

is got to expand if you're going to

Carey Green:

be a New Testament type of Christian

Carey Green:

because it's not about 10% anymore.

Carey Green:

It's not about firstfruits. It's about your

Carey Green:

whole life, your whole life is a service and

Carey Green:

your whole interaction with people is a

Carey Green:

ministry. So you give, give, give, give,

Carey Green:

expecting nothing in return. And yet because

Carey Green:

you are God, God gives you what you need.

Dr. Brad Miller:

The covenant is the totality of who we

Dr. Brad Miller:

are. Yes. That's awesome thing. What tell

Dr. Brad Miller:

us a little bit about that. Let's talk about

Dr. Brad Miller:

testimonials for just a second.

Dr. Brad Miller:

What I mean by that is you now have a business

Dr. Brad Miller:

and you have other things that

Dr. Brad Miller:

you're involved with, that are outside the

Dr. Brad Miller:

context of a church and a church

Dr. Brad Miller:

kind of is designed to be life

Dr. Brad Miller:

transformative type of Although sometimes

Dr. Brad Miller:

it's tough there. But tell us

Dr. Brad Miller:

about something you're involved with now,

Dr. Brad Miller:

in your either in your business

Dr. Brad Miller:

or your ministry, where you've seen

Dr. Brad Miller:

something you've done impacts somebody else.

Dr. Brad Miller:

And you've seen some change

Dr. Brad Miller:

take place, you know, maybe you're

Dr. Brad Miller:

doing business different than some

Dr. Brad Miller:

other podcasting editor companies, or

Dr. Brad Miller:

whatever it would be. But tell us

Dr. Brad Miller:

about a story about you've seen someone

Dr. Brad Miller:

you've had some connection with,

Dr. Brad Miller:

has some sort of a transformation.

Carey Green:

You know, I appreciate the opportunity

Carey Green:

to share that my, my wife and I both are

Carey Green:

involved in a ministry that's based

Carey Green:

around the podcast that we began,

Carey Green:

it's called the morning mindset, daily

Carey Green:

Christian devotional, and it's a daily six

Carey Green:

minute, sort of, I often call it a shot to the soul, it's,

Carey Green:

it's to get our minds aligned with

Carey Green:

God's truth so that we can live that

Carey Green:

day in alignment with reality as God sees it.

Carey Green:

And so it's meant to be an

Carey Green:

encouragement and an inspiration to

Carey Green:

people every morning of the week. Now,

Carey Green:

what's happened from that is not

Carey Green:

only has the listenership grown to numbers

Carey Green:

I couldn't even imagine when we first started it.

Carey Green:

But we also got this, this vision

Carey Green:

during the midst of producing those

Carey Green:

episodes for a greater outreach that we could have.

Carey Green:

One of the things we added to the mix

Carey Green:

along the way was a Friday episode.

Carey Green:

That is a I call it pray together. And it's

Carey Green:

where people have submitted prayer requests

Carey Green:

to us throughout the week using a form.

Carey Green:

We take those prayer requests, and we

Carey Green:

kind of decipher through them, what's the

Carey Green:

real request here, because, you know,

Carey Green:

people from all over the world are sending things.

Carey Green:

So sometimes English is not their

Carey Green:

first language takes us a while to figure out

Carey Green:

what they're saying. And then once we have them

Carey Green:

all, all kind of packaged, ready to

Carey Green:

use for the prayer episode, I actually pray for

Carey Green:

them on an episode, just in a live

Carey Green:

conversation kind of like this between me

Carey Green:

and God. And others listen, they pray along,

Carey Green:

they become a part of the process

Carey Green:

of blessing that person through prayer.

Carey Green:

And so one of the things that came out of

Carey Green:

that is at first, my wife was the one processing

Carey Green:

all the prayers when they came in.

Carey Green:

And she kept seeing these financial needs that

Carey Green:

were coming up from people in the

Carey Green:

Philippines, for people in America, people in

Carey Green:

Canada, people in South America,

Carey Green:

just financial needs all over the world. And of course,

Carey Green:

we know that we all have financial

Carey Green:

needs at times. But she got this vision in our

Carey Green:

mind of surely there's somebody

Carey Green:

in just for example, the Ukraine, who has

Carey Green:

extra money and can help this person in the

Carey Green:

Philippines. How can we facilitate that?

Carey Green:

How can we connect those dots. And so

Carey Green:

what we wound up doing is creating a nonprofit

Carey Green:

in the end called not a needy person.

Carey Green:

And that name comes from Acts chapter four,

Carey Green:

where the brand-new church was all gathering together.

Carey Green:

And it says that each one was sharing

Carey Green:

out of his own possessions, in fact,

Carey Green:

selling his own possessions, giving the

Carey Green:

money to the leaders of the church, the apostles,

Carey Green:

and they were distributing to others

Carey Green:

as they had need. And it said, not a

Carey Green:

needy person was among them. And so we've

Carey Green:

borrowed that phrase to kind of describe

Carey Green:

and symbolize what it is we're doing,

Carey Green:

where we're receiving needs from people,

Carey Green:

they can fill out an application and tell us their needs.

Carey Green:

And then my wife and a team of others vets

Carey Green:

those needs and talks with them on a video

Carey Green:

call and legitimize is that there's really

Carey Green:

a need here and it's not a scam.

Carey Green:

And then once we vetted them, we place

Carey Green:

them on the website as opportunities for

Carey Green:

people to give in each need has its own give button.

Carey Green:

So the need the funds are siphoned right

Carey Green:

to the place they should be.

Carey Green:

And then we're able to help with medical bills

Carey Green:

and with adoption process and

Carey Green:

with legal fees, and all kinds of different things.

Carey Green:

And, Brad, I'm telling you, we did

Carey Green:

not realize how quickly it would take off,

Carey Green:

and how much of a blessing it would be

Carey Green:

to be the conduit through which God

Carey Green:

meets somebody's financial need.

Carey Green:

And we've heard so many people say,

Carey Green:

I can't believe this. And through tears,

Carey Green:

they're saying, how do people who don't

Carey Green:

even know me care enough to give

Carey Green:

money to help me, you know, those kinds of

Carey Green:

things that are a testimony of God's generosity

Carey Green:

through his people to his people.

Carey Green:

It's been just such a blessing.

Dr. Brad Miller:

I gotta tell you, Carrie, when I got on your website,

Dr. Brad Miller:

just to do a little research before

Dr. Brad Miller:

we got on our conversation today, that blew me away.

Dr. Brad Miller:

I saw that part of your website and

Dr. Brad Miller:

just knocked my socks off. I thought this is

Dr. Brad Miller:

an awesome idea. And I was hoping

Dr. Brad Miller:

that you would share about that here today.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Because it just shows what

Dr. Brad Miller:

God can do when people use our ideas,

Dr. Brad Miller:

the resources and the gifts they've been given.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Maybe it's other context, what they've

Dr. Brad Miller:

thought of it had been hard to do.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Maybe or maybe not been hard to do

Dr. Brad Miller:

that a local church setting. Perhaps

Dr. Brad Miller:

maybe it can be done. Yeah, I mean,

Dr. Brad Miller:

but in my in my understanding to be

Dr. Brad Miller:

hard to do, but give him your own business

Dr. Brad Miller:

that you're involved with right now.

Dr. Brad Miller:

It's happening. Yeah, yeah, that's a good thing.

Dr. Brad Miller:

So I appreciate that so much.

Dr. Brad Miller:

And you've got a lot to offer here.

Dr. Brad Miller:

And maybe we have so maybe we'll have

Dr. Brad Miller:

another podcast episode to talk about

Dr. Brad Miller:

this type of thing because I just think

Dr. Brad Miller:

as a whole world out there of this kind

Dr. Brad Miller:

of crowdsourcing crowdfunding, sort of a

Dr. Brad Miller:

thing that can really speak to a huge

Dr. Brad Miller:

need out there, and a prayer thing as well,

Dr. Brad Miller:

you know that oh my gosh, it's just us out there.

Dr. Brad Miller:

So yeah, but I appreciate it. Well, I

Dr. Brad Miller:

hope you folks do want to be in connection

Dr. Brad Miller:

to you carry to learn about you and

Dr. Brad Miller:

who you are and your, your business and

Dr. Brad Miller:

your ministry and you have a podcasting

Dr. Brad Miller:

editing service. How can people be a get

Dr. Brad Miller:

connected to get connected to you? Yeah, well,

Carey Green:

thank you for the opportunity to share that.

Carey Green:

The best way I think would be just to go

Carey Green:

to my personal website, it's Carrie green.com.

Carey Green:

And my name is spelled a little

Carey Green:

differently. It's C A R E Y. Green, just like

Carey Green:

the color.com. And that's where you'll find

Carey Green:

the morning mindset podcasts.

Carey Green:

There's a link there for not a needy person

Carey Green:

you can see there as well. And then on

Carey Green:

the about page, that should link to everything

Carey Green:

else that I'm doing, you know, my

Carey Green:

podcast, business, all those things you should

Carey Green:

be able to get there from there.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Well, thank you for being with us

Dr. Brad Miller:

here today. His name is Carrie green,

Dr. Brad Miller:

carry green calm, as he mentioned, and

Dr. Brad Miller:

he is all about helping people to enhance

Dr. Brad Miller:

their life, to build up their life in their

Dr. Brad Miller:

business and other things and to have life change.

Dr. Brad Miller:

And you heard how it's been impacted,

Dr. Brad Miller:

not only in his own personal life and how that

Dr. Brad Miller:

is spread to people literally around

Dr. Brad Miller:

the world. So we thank you for being our guest

Dr. Brad Miller:

today on the beyond adversity

Dr. Brad Miller:

podcast with Dr. Brad Miller.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Our guest today has been Carrie green.

Dr. Brad Miller:

Thank you so much.