166: The Price of Pursuing The American Dream with Martin Sawa

Brad Miller:: 00:00

The price of pursuing the American dream with Martin Sawa the author of the other side

Brad Miller:: 00:10

of success on episode number 166 of the beyond adversity podcast with Dr. Brad Miller.

Martin Sawa: 00:23

It always means putting something at stake and having downside risk. So if you don't

Martin Sawa: 00:31

achieve your goal, there is a penalty or consequence. If you don't have that, then when

Martin Sawa: 00:38

you're unmotivated, to kind of liberates you to do the things you shouldn't do.

Brad Miller: 01:07

Hello, good people. And welcome to the beyond adversity podcast with Dr. Brad Miller.

Brad Miller 1:15

It is my pleasure to welcome you to this podcast where we specialize in helping you to

Brad Miller 1:20

grow through what you go through. That is we help you to deal with adversity in your life

Brad Miller 1:27

and to get beyond it and to achieve your life of peace, prosperity, and purpose. You can

Brad Miller 1:33

always go to our archives of podcast episodes, we have over 160 episodes at Dr. Brad

Brad Miller 1:41

Miller.com. There you can find great insights from doctors and psychologists and

Brad Miller 1:48

teachers and business people and physicians and great thinkers in the area of helping

Brad Miller 1:55

you to process and to have a way to get through whatever it is you're going through. To

Brad Miller 2:03

come out to a better place. You can head to Dr. Brad Miller.com we've got a free gift for

Brad Miller 2:08

you there that can be helpful to you. And we look to speak into your life to help you to

Brad Miller 2:14

navigate beyond adversity to your life, peace, prosperity, and purpose. Today we have a

Brad Miller 2:20

great guest with us. He is an author. And he comes to us from the business world,

Brad Miller 2:27

particularly from the world of real estate, commercial real estate where he had quite a

Brad Miller 2:32

successful career. But he's speaking now not only about his success in the real estate

Brad Miller 2:40

world, but his success in dealing with difficulties in life to achieving the American dream

Brad Miller 2:48

but what price he had to pay to achieve the American dream and how he has come

Brad Miller 2:52

through that to a much better place in his life. His name is Martin Sawa. And he is a first

Brad Miller 2:58

generation Ukrainian American, which comes with it some issues regarding immigration

Brad Miller 3:05

and his folks, his parents who had escaped Nazi-ism in Ukraine in order to establish a

Brad Miller 3:10

life here and how he and his life then eventually navigated his way to San Francisco,

Brad Miller 3:16

where he became a player in the real estate market and became quite successful in

Brad Miller 3:22

commercial real estate. He was a self-made man. But he came from humble

Brad Miller 3:27

beginnings. But in his life, he had some devastating loss. He lost his wife, He

Brad Miller 3:34

descended into alcoholism. He had many other issues he had to face in his life, in order

Brad Miller 3:40

to come through that. In his life, he had transitions in his business world. And he took a

Brad Miller 3:46

risk in many things. In fact, he's going to talk about putting skin in the game. We had a

Brad Miller 3:51

great conversation here today. And he's talking about the demands of his life and career

Brad Miller 3:56

and how it all came, came crashing down on him and he had to rebuild his life. The

Brad Miller 4:03

book is called the other side of success, money and meaning the Golden State. And it's

Brad Miller 4:10

really an account of his experiences of moving from an emigrant to success, dealing

Brad Miller 4:18

with tragedy and coming through that in a healthy way. And it is about he'll talks about

Brad Miller 4:23

how he was driven in his life. But he found spirituality. He found relationships. He found

Brad Miller 4:31

other things to get him through, hold himself out of addiction and personal tragedy to

Brad Miller 4:37

arrive at a state of peace, prosperity, and purpose. He blogs at Martin sawa.com

Brad Miller 4:48

you're gonna love this conversation here on the beyond adversity podcast with Dr. Brad

Brad Miller 4:52

Miller. So let's get into that conversation. Right now. Our special guest today is Martin

Brad Miller 5:01

Sawa. He is the author of the other side of success, money and meaning and the

Brad Miller 5:07

Golden State. And he had been very successful in the real estate world. And so many

Brad Miller 5:13

people say he's achieved the American dream. But to get there, it's been quite a story.

Brad Miller 5:19

We're going to get into the details of that. He's an immigrant person. He's had all kinds

Brad Miller 5:27

of challenges in his life, home life and financial and in the business world, and other

Brad Miller 5:33

things, other things in his life. He's got a fascinating story to tell. We're going to get into

Brad Miller 5:37

it right now. He's going to help us to find meaningfulness in making money. Our guest

Brad Miller 5:42

today, Martin Sawa. Martin, welcome to the Welcome to the podcast today.

Martin Sawa: 05:45

Hi, Dr. Brad Miller. And thanks so much for having me on.

Brad Miller: 05:50

Well, it's quite an honor to have you here on beyond adversity. And we've mentioned

Brad Miller 5:57

here in the introduction, you quite a success, the real estate world. And yet, your story is

Brad Miller 6:04

an incredible story of not only your personal story, but your family's history in Europe,

Brad Miller 6:11

about how you have had faced some challenges to get to success. And then after

Brad Miller 6:15

success, you've had some challenges too. And just tell us a little bit about your

Brad Miller 6:19

background story, where you who you the family, you come from some of the things that

Brad Miller 6:24

they face and you faced and where we stand now.

Martin Sawa: 06:28

My parents grew up in the outskirts of a city in Ukraine. And this was the years before

Martin Sawa 6:39

and during the Second World War. So they lived under Stalin and under Hitler. And in

Martin Sawa 6:47

terms of adversity, I don't think it gets any worse than that. They watched a lot of their

Martin Sawa 6:56

friends die, be deported to camps. They escaped with their wives, and then wandered

Martin Sawa 7:01

around Eastern Europe working day to day before the war, and then they spent four

Martin Sawa 7:09

years in displaced persons camp and asked me before they were allowed to immigrate

Martin Sawa 7:16

to America, I was actually conceived in one of the camps and then birth it on US soil.

Martin Sawa 7:26

So I grew up in a small town in the Midwest. And after high school, moved to Chicago,

Martin Sawa 7:35

and went to college, and then after college, I moved out west to California to make my

Martin Sawa 7:43

fortune. And I scroll forward about 10 years, I was married at the time, my wife was

Martin Sawa 7:54

pregnant, I was commuting 40 miles to a job, I hate it. And I was dead broke. So I had a

Martin Sawa 8:05

decision to make. And I quit my job and swore I would never go back without a wife.

Martin Sawa 8:13

And I got a real estate license and got into the world of commercial real estate, as a

Martin Sawa 8:20

broker. And I sold investment properties, which is the most challenging way to get in

Martin Sawa 8:27

because at that time, it took months to put a deal together. And then you have to wait

Martin Sawa 8:34

until it calls to get paid if it caused at all. So it was what took about a year before I got

Martin Sawa 8:42

my first commission check. But then I was able to start paying off my bills. And I moved

Martin Sawa 8:52

to a firm in San Francisco and over the next 10 years went up the ladder. Now I was at

Martin Sawa 9:01

the top of the game so to speak in terms of brokerage. I met my second wife. And she

Martin Sawa 9:12

had what I would call charisma in biblical sense and powers in what is called the world

Martin Sawa 9:21

of the unseen and became my spiritual mentor as well as my moral compass. Good wife

Martin Sawa 9:30

model. One night she got down. My wife changed after that. There was no way to really

Martin Sawa 9:41

describe all their fields. And so I regrouped. And over time, went back to work. became

Martin Sawa 9:52

developer with a partner. We had some major projects in downtown San Francisco. I

Martin Sawa: 10:00

went back After the practice of my faith, and in 2012, I left the business. Since then I've

Martin Sawa: 10:10

been fortunate enough to be able to do some writing, and thinking, and working on

Martin Sawa: 10:17

personal projects, helping others achieve success. And in the last, over the last few

Martin Sawa: 10:26

years, I have worked on my memoir, the other side of success, money and the meaning

Martin Sawa: 10:31

and the Golden State, which reckons in my adventures, both in my business life and in

Martin Sawa: 10:39

my personal life.

Brad Miller: 10:41

So you've had

Martin Sawa: 10:43

brought us here together

Brad Miller: 10:44

Absolutely. And certainly it is thematic for what we like to talk about here on beyond

Brad Miller: 10:52

adversity, we really believe that people love face have kind of I call them the five D’s or

Brad Miller: 10:57

the five categories of adversity one of them is, and I think your story kind of touches on

Brad Miller: 11:02

all of them one way or another. One is depression and another one is divorce or

Brad Miller: 11:06

relationship issues. Another one is a disease, you know, COVID crisis we're going

Brad Miller: 11:11

through right now. The other one is debt or money issues. Another one is death, you

11:16

know, either death of a loved one or someone in our life, when do we deal with those?

Brad Miller: 11:22

sometimes not so good, and sometimes have a process to get through that. And we'll

Brad Miller: 11:26

talk for a few minutes about your process. But you really hit some of the highest of the

Brad Miller: 11:31

highs of the business world and the lows of the lows in your personal life. And I know

Brad Miller: 11:36

that you even part of what the theme of what you're talking about here is those high

Brad Miller: 11:42

places in the business world aren't all they're cracked up to be. Is that a fair thing to

Brad Miller: 11:46

say? Or you had your challenges there as well in the business? Do you have any

Brad Miller: 11:49

success in business?

Martin Sawa: 11:51

Yes. Just as an aside, I would like to add a six d to the west.

Brad Miller: 11:59

All right, good.

Martin Sawa: 12:00

I think I experienced all five multiple times. The sixth I would call degree. And guess the

Martin Sawa: 12:08

degree within that category of the adversity

Brad Miller: 12:11

Yes. So say more about that. What do you mean, when you say degree? could you

Brad Miller: 12:17

please go deeper, please?

Martin Sawa: 12:18

Well, you can experience death. But it can be the death of a loved one. You've had time

Martin Sawa: 12:29

to tie all the loose ends with the way to an advanced age is part of the passing process.

Martin Sawa: 12:39

Or you can experience the death of a child at a young age to a violence circumstances.

Martin Sawa: 12:46

And they're quite out, though. They're both about that. But they're quantifiably different

Martin Sawa: 12:51

experiences.

Brad Miller: 12:53

that's very insightful and helpful. And it seems to me that you have been working very

Brad Miller: 13:01

hard through your memoir, your book here. And so the things you're really doing a

Brad Miller: 13:04

processing the things that you have had success with and got through and developing

Brad Miller: 13:12

your thinking towards this, and just like to ask you, Martin, what are you mentioned least

Brad Miller: 13:18

one of them, but I would like you to unpack for us. What do you think are some of the

Brad Miller: 13:24

actions that you took, that helped you to process this rather than being stuck? You

Brad Miller: 13:30

know, you're part of what I like to do is help people to get unstuck from wherever they're

Brad Miller: 13:34

at. And you probably you and I probably know, people who've been stuck, you had a

Brad Miller: 13:39

bad job or a bad marriage or in depression, something like that. What are some things

Brad Miller: 13:43

you did to help you to take some action to break some patterns there? What are some

Brad Miller: 13:48

actions that you took?

Martin Sawa: 13:52

In the world of business, it's very competitive. And, again, it's an arena for combat. And

Martin Sawa: 14:04

it's sort of neutral. It's what you make of it and what your actions are. So I would say the

Martin Sawa: 14:12

first step was to, I didn't like the job I had. And I didn't have couldn't support my family.

Martin Sawa: 14:22

And I reasoned that I really needed to become an entrepreneur, well, which essentially,

Martin Sawa: 14:27

is what I was, what was always an independent contractor life. And then I took

Martin Sawa: 14:35

responsibility for them. And, you know, the technical aspects, one could pick up pretty

Martin Sawa: 14:44

quickly, or in today's world, watch some webinars or whatever, but it's really the desire

Martin Sawa: 14:52

and the drive to succeed at all costs. There's a Japanese proverb that goes false down

Martin Sawa: 15:00

seven times get up eight. And that's really the mind form in the world of business. And

Martin Sawa: 15:08

but as one achieves success, it's always at a cost. There's always a flip side. And

Martin Sawa: 15:16

people see very wealthy people or celebrities, whatever can be saved on social media.

Martin Sawa: 15:26

And boy, these people have no problems, then pay a price or whatever. And it's just

Martin Sawa: 15:32

because these people can afford publicity things, right? Who sometimes it's just a thing,

Brad Miller: 15:39

sometimes the thick layer makeup, sometimes physically, but also in terms of their

Brad Miller: 15:44

Images have been big, caked-on and that's the thing.

Martin Sawa: 15:51

In my case, I had a problem with alcohol ever since I was a little kid. Tell them we grew

Martin Sawa: 16:00

up and had 5000 people and about 40 pounds, which is a pretty high ratio.

Brad Miller: 16:07

Of course what most a lot not a lot of heavy-duty drinking was going on sounds

Martin Sawa: 16:12

We do. You can avoid alcohol. Can’t really come into the vernacular, your was your to

Martin Sawa: 16:21

physically drink. But it caught up with me later in life as I was building deals and flying

Martin Sawa: 16:31

cities internationally and going to no words, then all of that came to the point. And the

Martin Sawa: 16:42

incidents are described, good for him in the book. Where my marriage with my second

Martin Sawa: 16:48

life there it was either I had to stop it, or whatnot. And that was it. So I made a decision.

Martin Sawa: 16:57

And I dealt with the alcohol and then went on but as I found out all through my life, that

Martin Sawa: 17:07

doesn't mean your problems won't end. It's always a continuing series of challenges.

Martin Sawa: 17:14

And the more you push yourself, whether in business or in life and raise the stakes, the

Martin Sawa: 17:20

more you will be tested. That's just the way it is.

Brad Miller: 17:24

But you've mentioned two or three actions that you took, and I just wanted to kind of

Brad Miller: 17:30

reflect with you what I'm hearing, you say, aging, you left your first job, do you become

Brad Miller: 17:34

an entrepreneur into the real estate world, and because of circumstances that you had

Brad Miller: 17:41

and not having enough money and so on. Then you left eventually when you had

Brad Miller: 17:47

success. You eventually left that didn't do what you're doing basic now become a writer

Brad Miller: 17:54

and a people, a coach, as it were to help others. And then also when you had the death

Brad Miller: 18:01

of your wife, you had to deal with that deal with the grief. And then you also had to deal

Brad Miller: 18:05

with the alcoholism, you took some steps to deal with those. And that's an awesome

Brad Miller: 18:10

thing. And I commend you on that. And yet you are also very mindful of all those ups

Brad Miller: 18:15

and downs and all this is a difficult journey. And on this journey of processing adversity

Brad Miller: 18:23

to get past into a better place, it's hard to do it on your own. I just wonder you

Brad Miller: 18:30

mentioned that your wife, your second wife who passed away so early in life was a

Brad Miller: 18:35

woman of faith and help to also keep you on the straight and narrow they guess how

Brad Miller: 18:39

you put it, say a word about two things about relationships with people who can help

Brad Miller: 18:46

you keep on the straight and narrow or help you keep some of have accountability, and

Brad Miller: 18:51

then anything having to do with connecting to a higher power, whether it's a faith

Brad Miller: 18:57

situation or meditation, or something beyond yourself, you say a little bit about those

Brad Miller: 19:02

things, if they were factors in how you travel this road

Martin Sawa: 19:09

of faith has always been a part of my life. My parents came from a place that was

Martin Sawa: 19:18

subject to totalitarian regimes where the first thing one does is establish an atheistic

Martin Sawa: 19:31

state. Well, there's no question on who one believes. So when I grew up in this little

Martin Sawa: 19:38

town in Wisconsin, we were Roman Catholic. I was an altar boy in grade school. I went

Martin Sawa: 19:45

to a Jesuit High School, which happened to be conveniently located in the town. It was

Martin Sawa: 19:51

a boarding school, that I went as a town student to learn far more in high school than

Martin Sawa: 19:57

ever and then bounce back. Then after I left town and did go to college. The features

Martin Sawa: 20:10

were the practice of faith just started to fade away. And I think this was there was no big

Martin Sawa: 20:18

moment. No, it's just the secularization of this country over the last 15 years. And I kind

Martin Sawa: 20:25

of went along with it. There was never a point where I, I didn't believe, but I just, I didn't

Martin Sawa: 20:32

practice and it didn't affect my life. After my wife passed, I was alone. And would my

Martin Sawa: 20:44

spiritual mentor is gone. And I turned back to my faith. To deal with the grief, I practice

Martin Sawa: 20:54

Zen meditation. I studied Judaism, I studied, the depth practices of other religions

Martin Sawa: 21:05

eventually came to where I decided to go to a retreat, it was at a Jesuit retreat facility

Martin Sawa: 21:13

here in the San Francisco Bay Area. I was nestled in the hills, right in Silicon Valley,

Martin Sawa: 21:19

right above the mansions of the tech moguls. And there was there that I made a

Martin Sawa: 21:28

commitment to go back to the original practice of my Catholic faith. So I ended steps to

Martin Sawa: 21:35

do that, and have been doing that ever since.

Brad Miller: 21:39

That's awesome. say more about, I just feel like your wife. And there's been some other

Brad Miller: 21:45

people have maybe spoken to your life, maybe through these retreats and things like

Brad Miller: 21:48

that, who helped help hold you accountable through some of these ups and downs, I'm

Brad Miller: 21:54

thinking your time of alcoholism and your time of making some really hard decisions to

Brad Miller: 22:01

leave, I believe that you had been quite successful in the business, that real estate

Brad Miller: 22:06

world into leave that had to be, I imagined, so people were saying, What are you doing,

Brad Miller: 22:10

man? What are you doing, Martin? That kind of thing was going on. But how were

Brad Miller: 22:14

relationships? mostly good, but perhaps even some challenging a part of the process of

Brad Miller: 22:21

being helpful to you? Or what part did they play?

Martin Sawa: 22:26

The book itself took me a while to organize the structure. But it's sort of alternating

Martin Sawa: 22:34

between my business life and my personal life. And you're one person and it's one

Martin Sawa: 22:43

brain, one personality, but I kind of compartmentalize and thought if I could manage

Martin Sawa: 22:53

each one, by itself, the one-man problem becomes there, there are no core values to

Martin Sawa: 23:02

align you in the world of business. So when you go astray, you have to have some

Martin Sawa: 23:09

ability to align it with the core values which come on the personal side, and come

Martin Sawa: 23:19

through the religious practice of faith and come through other means, so to speak. So

Martin Sawa: 23:29

my second wife was hugely instrumental in that, in addition, and

Martin Sawa: 23:42

In addition, I formed a relationship with a psychic medium. And I'm not here to convince

Martin Sawa: 23:50

your listeners on this whole subject matter. Suffice it to say that I was a hardened

Martin Sawa: 23:57

skeptic. And in business, I dealt with people's names you see in the paper, and masters

Martin Sawa: 24:03

of illusion when it comes to making money. And I came to the conclusion that there's a

Martin Sawa: 24:11

small, tiny handful of people who have the ability to access information through

Martin Sawa: 24:21

unexplainable means. And it's up to the individual to determine how they do it if they

Martin Sawa: 24:31

can ever determine, but the proof is always in the pudding if I get practical results. So I

Martin Sawa: 24:37

made that decision to to to use that resource and use it sparingly and wisely and really,

Martin Sawa: 24:47

it was Mary Jo. Both Anita and I have known her for about five years before I need a

Martin Sawa: 24:53

pass and after Nina did pass, she was the most instrumental factor in dealing with me

Martin Sawa: 25:00

Before moving on, and I learned that love can survive physical death.

Brad Miller: 25:07

I think gives you a kind of a connection as it were. Thread as it were through some of

Brad Miller: 25:15

the other things we've talked about, about grief and success and hard decisions to

Brad Miller: 25:21

leave careers and deal with the success sets because success is hard to deal with. And

Brad Miller: 25:31

what you say in your book is you want to find meaningfulness in this life, and that's a

Brad Miller: 25:37

search, I think we all have is to find meaningfulness. And I believe a part of that has to

Brad Miller: 25:43

do with what we've talked about here, that emotional thing, that relationship, I believe

Brad Miller: 25:46

there's a spiritual element, there's the element kind of almost a physical, the taking

Brad Miller: 25:50

action piece when there's many people gets stuck by just not taking action. But I think

Brad Miller: 25:56

another part of the kind of the cognitive, or the kind of everyday piece is what are our

Brad Miller: 26:02

habits or disciplines. Or what are we doing now that we didn't do before. So what I'd like

Brad Miller: 26:07

for you to speak if you went to any part of your life, any habits or disciplines, old

Brad Miller: 26:13

practices, especially things you may teach in your book, that can be helpful to us in

Brad Miller: 26:18

terms of having meaningfulness in life and having success.

Martin Sawa: 26:25

Though, it's always helpful to have a mentor, boy who has your best interest of hearts,

Martin Sawa: 26:35

and his profession, in whatever is the specific subject area you want to get help in,

Martin Sawa: 26:44

which is not always easy, because even family and friends oftentimes won't have the

Martin Sawa: 26:52

best interest. So I’m pretty self-directed. So I try to figure out how I needed to address

Martin Sawa: 27:01

the problem, what my tangible goal was a tangible, measurable goal

Martin Sawa: 27:10

find the perfect mate or whatever, tantrum, Pacific ball. So in the case of alcoholism, I

Martin Sawa: 27:19

dealt with what I call a control program of moderation. I would stop, or I go, maybe days,

Martin Sawa: 27:27

even weeks without breaking. And then if I had the urge, I would have a beer to really

Martin Sawa: 27:33

more than three. And that way I was able to function and not feel like my dad did, who

27:42

went cold turkey to a tremendous after well, but then know how to fill the hole became

27:50

somber and morose for the rest of his life. So it's finding kind of what works for you.

Martin Sawa: 27:56

When I talk to people, and they asked my advice, In general, the first question I asked

Martin Sawa: 28:04

them is what do you believe to be true? Okay, again, this is from the top down. If you

Martin Sawa: 28:11

believe life starts at zero, and infancy, then that's fine. To be true to yourself, you're

Martin Sawa: 28:21

going a certain way. And you may achieve great success and be an asshole, but not

Martin Sawa: 28:29

caring. Because that's your voice. Is that your worldview? But if you believe there's

Martin Sawa: 28:35

more than that, and what is it you believe in giveaway them in a personal God before

Martin Sawa: 28:40

even the power of prayer, listening. And as you assemble your tools, and it comes down

Martin Sawa: 28:47

to practice, religion what happens to the line, the ritual is the vast shares always the

Martin Sawa: 28:55

atonement, the confession, you treat these things seriously. You develop a personal plan.

Brad Miller: 29:02

That's part of your process is the practice, how you apply these things to your life. And

Brad Miller: 29:09

one of the things I saw in my notes here is the theme of your book and of, having

Brad Miller: 29:15

meaning most in your life is to have skin in the game, in business, and in life. Unpack

Brad Miller: 29:21

that for us a little bit. But I think it's a part of your process. If I'm understanding you,

Brad Miller: 29:25

Martin, part of your process is to invest to get a return. So tell us what you mean by that

Brad Miller: 29:31

in terms of business and in your meaningfulness of life.

Martin Sawa: 29:35

It's kind of game is a central theme of the book. In business, it means risking your time

Martin Sawa: 29:44

your mining your reputation, and further and silver for your business goals. But in life,

Martin Sawa: 29:56

that always means putting something at stake and having downside risk. So if you don't

Martin Sawa: 30:02

achieve your goal, there is a penalty or consequence to be paid. If you don't have that,

Martin Sawa: 30:11

then when you're unmotivated, and it kind of liberates you to do things you shouldn't do.

Martin Sawa: 30:20

And that's what you see what a lot of the internet trolls are, they're anonymous. So they

Martin Sawa: 30:25

Can take somebody down, destroy their life. But if they're unsuccessful or caught,

Martin Sawa: 30:34

there's no punishment. They have nothing on the downside, so it just scores me even

Martin Sawa: 30:39

more. So that's what I mean by the skin in the game.

Brad Miller: 30:43

Very good that I think it's helpful to know you got to you know, you got to risk something

Brad Miller: 30:48

in order to get to gain something, it's not just you know, the bottom line, money-wise, it

Brad Miller: 30:53

is the bottom line of your life. And one of the things you've done is you've put yourself

Brad Miller: 30:59

out there by writing a book. Writing a book is a vulnerable thing to do. It's an intense

Brad Miller: 31:05

thing to do. It's something where you're saying, here's my story, but also here is what I

Brad Miller: 31:11

can share with you. How you can make some changes in your life as well. And I think

Brad Miller: 31:17

it's getting to know you, it's a part of your heart is to help serve other people. So tell us a

Brad Miller: 31:22

little bit about how your book or your teaching have to serve someone else. Maybe

Brad Miller: 31:28

someone you know personally or coach or part of your business, maybe someone who

Brad Miller: 31:31

read your book. Can you tell us about some situations where you've been influential,

Brad Miller: 31:36

someone where you've been able to take your life lessons, and then be helpful to someone else.

Martin Sawa: 31:43

I brought my business career. I've mentored protegees. So the book reveals how I dealt

Martin Sawa: 31:52

with that and how I made them put skin in the game and their eventual success. But I

Martin Sawa: 31:59

think the most compelling story is the work I did with my stepson. And this was later in

Martin Sawa: 32:10

my final marriage after my wife passed, then he was by at the time in his mid-20s. He

Martin Sawa: 32:18

was a young black man living in Jackson, Mississippi. He was between a paraplegic

Martin Sawa: 32:25

and a quadriplegic as a result of a childhood car accident. He was on pain medication,

Martin Sawa: 32:35

doing other drugs just to stay coherent. That's adversity. I mean, compared to what I

Martin Sawa: 32:48

would, like, right? point a much more compelling. So I thought, I took it as a challenge to

Martin Sawa: 32:57

see how he could improve his life. And I wouldn't be able to offer advice and never to

Martin Sawa: 33:07

tell him what to do. But I had some definite ideas that I had accumulated over the years.

Martin Sawa: 33:16

So we set about that, and the outcome is today. He is no good. By the way, he finished

Martin Sawa: 33:25

high school, but he had no other professional training time. Today, he is a DevOps

Martin Sawa: 33:32

Engineer while he owns a new home. He made sure that investments in oil were safe

Martin Sawa: 33:40

physically, financially, and otherwise independent lifestyle. That's like a quantum. And that's a success.

Brad Miller: 33:50

Oh, absolutely. That's a great story. Because I'm sure you care about the people read

Brad Miller: 33:58

your book and you care about the people you've mentored in business and prodigies as

Brad Miller: 34:02

you say, but this is family. This is someone that you have a connection with that goes,

Brad Miller: 34:09

deeper than those other connections that you have and make all the difference in the world.

Martin Sawa: 34:16

Well, there's the element of a personal challenge. I know what worked for me. But then

Martin Sawa: 34:24

what would work for other people? And so I had to test them. And it's the practical result

Martin Sawa: 34:31

against specific tangible goals with measurable outcomes.

Brad Miller: 34:38

which outlines your process and that's what we're all about here is to have people, how

Brad Miller: 34:45

people can get stuck in adversity, whatever it is, but in order to get out of it, to get

Brad Miller: 34:50

beyond it. It doesn't often happen a snap of the fingers you got to have a process and

Brad Miller: 34:55

what I love about what you teach us here in your Book is the other side of success is

Brad Miller: 35:03

about that process of getting through that. Before we close here Martin, are there any

Brad Miller: 35:07

other things that you just want to share that are really on your heart that you'd want to

Brad Miller: 35:11

share with our audience here today that can be something they can just take with them

Brad Miller: 35:15

a nugget they can take with them?

Martin Sawa: 35:18

Well, obviously, I'd appreciate it if you took the time to get my book and read it. The

Martin Sawa: 35:26

easiest way to do that is just go on my website Martinsawa.com. And there was one

Martin Sawa: 35:37

quote you can buy it from Amazon or the bookseller of your choice. You can check me

Martin Sawa: 35:45

out on social media. And you can scroll down to the bottom and send me an email and I

Martin Sawa: 35:51

love to hear from my readers, and wants to hear their individual success stories.